Analysis comment

Video: BBC reports France is excluding deaths outside hospital from CV figures – but neglects to mention UK doing same

UK insiders say government not including non-hospital deaths in its reporting

The BBC has reported at length this morning on the failings of European governments on the coronavirus crisis – but is failing to even mention that the UK government is doing the same or worse in many cases.

For example, the broadcaster gave a video segment to the under-reporting of deaths by the French government, which is excluding those who die outside hospital, in spite of many care homes in France seeing significant losses among elderly residents.

Yet not one word about the fact – reported days ago by the SKWAWKBOX and other outlets – that the UK government is doing exactly the same in excluding non-hospital deaths, even while the NHS is forced to send home many patients presenting with COVID-19 symptoms:

The BBC also criticised Spain for a lack of awareness of how many of its residents are infected because it is not testing them – with no mention of the Tories not even testing front-line NHS workers, let alone the wider population.

The UK’s media are aiding and abetting the Tory government in its misinformation of the public.

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47 comments

    1. ONS stats will be much more reliable – but will always be a couple of weeks out of date.

  1. The official figures for 24 countries across Europe show, not only that overall mortality is not increasing, but – so far – it is actually well below recent averages. [See European Monitoring of Excess Mortality for Public Health Action]

    1. You mean it’s all exaggerated and the virus isn’t that serious? It’s a growing trend with especially younger people who feel they have a good chance of getting it and easily surviving. It relies on the notion that the old will soon die anyway and the economic cost of preventing those deaths is ‘too great’. Lord Sumption made the argument today calling quarantine an hysterical over reaction. The best proponent of “it’s not worth the cost” is President Bolsanaro of Brazil who believes the hysteria is invented by ‘left wing media’ to bring him and other Rightists down. The president of Belarus agrees saying he hasn’t seen any viruses ‘flying through the air’. Cummings and Johnson seem attracted to this notion but dither and confuse the message in deep conflict. Trump is the main man who advocates ignoring the ‘media induced’ hysteria. It’s not an attractive line up. They will want to stick to their narrative because they don’t have an alternative. Death totals will be outrageously fiddled and the whole thing dismissed (IF it passes). Some people still deny there is a particularly nasty bug going round and some even claim it’s less deadly than normal flu. As the death rate rises, despite the fiddling, virus denying is under pressure.

      1. Sweden was wobbling a bit over the weekend contemplating restrictions. It will be interesting to see what happens there as it will in Brazil where restrictions are treated with contempt although as with other countries like the UK official fiddling of the figures will try to keep the real situation secret. Belarus is another denier country. As for the USA – well nobody knows it seems whether restrictions are ON or OFF. Anarchy and a military crackdown might be the result there. Oh to have a functioning health system like Germany or China.

      2. Testing and Isolating with high buy in to social distancing from public, alongside hygiene measures and a degree of common sense
        Should see Swedes through
        Looks good so far

      3. Spare a thought for the Palestinians in their overcrowded ‘prisons’. The Zionists are tearing down the makeshift hospitals they try to build to cope with the expected increase in infections. The ethnic cleansing continues by whatever methods the Zionists in Israel can bring to bear.

    2. Well, duhhhh!

      If countries are taking up excluding deaths to suit their charts then it stands to bloody reason the stats’d be ”below recent averages”.

      And there are 40-odd countries in Europe so it’s hardly the full picture, is it?

      Oh, and if you’re going off that graph on the EURO MOMO then it’s 20 countries, as they have 2 German regions and the 4 countries of the UK as separate entities.

      1. So, Toffee – your intangible contact with a reality transmitted directly (I suppose) from an ineffible and invisible deity beats all actual data and evidenced/informed opinion in terms of credibility?

        Glad you told us – we’d have been lost without such f.ing magical insight into Life, the Universe and Everything.

        I’m humbled 🙂

      2. Humbled?

        Hahaha. Yeah, alright. What you mean is you’re gutted you’ve been out-pedanted.

        As for your “evidenced opinion” well you’ve just been told it’s based on half-truths.

        Provide us with evidence using ALL the available data, not just what some governments decide they’re gonna release.

        THEN you can try & lord it over the rest of us.

      3. RH always posts half truths or downright lies.
        That’s his job.
        I really don’t get his agenda this time around, but obviously the whole world is conspiring against him.
        He should look at the US stats and lie his way around them.

    3. RH….So it was just a blip according to you most of Europe and Britain will be in recession,Trump ditribute 2.5trillion because hes American and he loves his people.,We have 200stranded people running out of money and pleading with other European countries to step in and fly them out of Phnom Penh Cambodia back to the UK.Cover-up on the deaths and its nothing to worry about?.You talk about numptys a lot but maybe its spreading.!Don’t worry corporal there is a cure,.Try socialism it works especially in times of strife comrade.

      1. Lots of people are talking about the opportunism of the Right Wing Govts to use the health crisis to introduce greater control and surveillance of its population in a 9/11 style over reaction. No doubt they are, it’s in their nature. But if the big corporations do collapse and capitalism itself wobbles then the big opportunity lies with the Left. We’ve already seen sweeping Nationalisation and State intervention to pay workers from the Treasuries’ Money Orchard. It’s WW2 ‘socialism’ if you like but consider how that ended in 1945 once the Brits had had a taste; they wanted more! You never know. But I can’t see Sir Keir leading the fight, he’ll be keen to row back on ‘extreme’ measures and ‘get back to normal’ ie life as it was under King Blair. That would be a terrible pity when capitalism -for once- really is on the brink of collapse.

    4. “You mean it’s all exaggerated and the virus isn’t that serious?”

      *I* personally don’t mean anything. I’m just reporting the questions that arise from a critical trawl through what is emerging (but not MSM reported) – i.e. that as further data and analysis becomes available, it has tended to reduce the initial estimates of mortality rather than emphasized the lethality of the virus.

      There is still a lot of uncertainty about what is indicated (that’s the main point), but early estimates tended towards the upper end of the severity scale, whilst more complete data has tended to reduce the risk probability range. The crucial issue is that the data is necessarily poor in terms of both the number of deaths *attributable to Covid-19* (as opposed to coincident with it) and the number of people infected.

      This year is not so far tremendously different from most years – except that no vaccine is available for this virus.

      The following from the ‘Lancet’ cites one situation within which the data – despite certain biases in the population profile – is fairly reliable :

      “A unique situation has arisen for quite an accurate estimate of the CFR of COVID-19. Among individuals onboard the Diamond Princess cruise ship, data on the denominator are fairly robust. The outbreak of COVID-19 led passengers to be quarantined between Jan 20, and Feb 29, 2020. This scenario provided a population living in a defined territory without most other confounders, such as imported cases, defaulters of screening, or lack of testing capability. 3711 passengers and crew were onboard, of whom 705 became sick and tested positive for COVID-19 and seven died,6 giving a CFR of 0·99%. If the passengers onboard were generally of an older age, the CFR in a healthy, younger population could be lower.”

      Note the last sentence. There are now some estimates that seriously consider the possibility of lower mortality than seasonal ‘flu. A problem is always the time-lag in the progress of the disease and analysis of the data. The latest analysis of the situation in Italy, for instance, gives a very different perspective than the reporting of headline figures when the context and detail are considered.

      Complacency wouldn’t be very bright – but neither is unrestrained exaggeration, and I get twitchy when I hear Mr Toad talking about ‘stronger measures’ when there aren’t any such feasible measures that would have any scientific basis in terms of mitigating the effects of this virus, whatever its virulance.

      This certainly isn’t equivalent to the Plague of 1665! The wider European analysis at this point (and the time frame is important) shows no *general* excess mortality, despite what is indicated by the MSM narrative. The historical record makes a fascinating context : worse situations from other viral infections have not led to similar action or related panic – and all viral infections kill significant numbers every year.

      When I turn on the tele and see Dominic Raab ‘leading the Nation’ – I know I have to get in touch with a better reality 🙂

    5. Perhaps a little time 7 mins spent viewing this may help you to understand the reality of what is coming . I find your continued dismissiveness of the serious of this situation irritating to say the least , despite the facts and figures of the WHO and its clear advice of the dangers.
      You maybe trying to reassure and assuage your fears with this stance but there comes a point where the mitigating attempts to try and ” balance the hysteria ” pass over to becoming dangerous denial.

      1. Sorry, rob – but this is personal *opinion* – not referenced data and evidence.

        The WHO is not the over-arching independent arbiter of such evidence and analysis. It has taken a particular stance – which is fine, given its role (which involves giving advice before data is fully available). It is but one organisation – and not one primarily engaged in basic research. Research is about critically examining hypotheses. That is not what the WHO does in this sort of time-frame.

        I’m simply passing on a wider range of evidence that has emerged.

      2. Sorry RH but Dr Read makes reference to multiple historic factual events , the Govts past performance and delay over implementing quarantine measures , the lack of ordering ventilators , the lack of PPE etc etc . This is NOT just opinion my friend but facts , agreed the WHO is not the only source , however , in comparison to articles culled from Off Guardian , then I prefer to form my understanding from experts and WHO , which is and takes it’s information from the leading experts and factual evidence . For it to do otherwise would destroy its credibility.

        Like I said RH ,,, there is a point where the mitigating attempts to try and ” balance the hysteria ” pass over to becoming dangerous denial.
        I understand that you are, like many of us, fearful and that you strive as humans do , to rationalise that fear with your input . But you also must be aware that it requires balance not to appear that you are dismissive of what reputable bodies are reporting in that drive to minimise that fear .
        Else others here will be dismissive of you ( apart from steveH ) , as you have seen , its counter productive in your arguments /debate

  2. We might have guessed it. It’s not in any government’s interest to collect these ‘scary’ figures. The fact is that the deaths of people not hospitalised will anger the public, and make the government look negligent. Jennie Harries said that there will be a 3-year program to investigate the wider scope of Covid infection, but it is unlikely that this will ever happen (for obvious reasons).

  3. “No, Betty, it’s not a coffin, it’s the latest thing in protective quarantine hospital beds. The zip’s just to make tucking you in at night easier for hard-pressed nurses. Lie still now, so you don’t damage the cardboard.”

  4. Have listened to the radio a lot over the last week and there are many examples similar to those given in the article which either point out faults in others while excusing the UK government or are simply pompous and patronising in their tone. Worse though is the input from the public who express their admiration at all “the hard work” Bunter and his chums are doing and express their gratitude for the effectiveness of the response. They invariably refer to “Boris “. I understand the malign,lick spittle attitude of the media but ,sadly, my faith in the British public has reached rock bottom.

    1. Indeed! British culture is reactionary and racist and has been for some centuries now! Take a look at popular reaction to the outrageously radical step of the Prison Service in considering the early release of some 50 pregnant prisoners. But the Brits demand their pound of flesh and are adamantly opposed to any early releases believing I suppose that the Americans, Iranians, Turks are overreacting by releasing tens of thousands. It may well be that prisoners will want out anyway before long; banged up for 23 hours out of 24 with no social or legal visits. With the justice system now closed down some will serve more time waiting for their hearings than the sentence. No bail OF COURSE for Assange or anybody, as there are no hearings. We’ll have a wink and a smirk from Johnson when the death rate in prisons rises. As Officers fall sick the Service will probably ask for the Army to assist; let’s hope the soldiers don’t lose patience.

      1. I think we have the answer to ‘Cui bono?’ in terms of the panic generation that I’ve noted.

    1. get me a verified independent test result and I might just believe it , otherwise as much as I hope it fucking kills him I don’t believe a word of the reports

      1. Very good on war against casino economics and disaster masters
        There time is up
        Did Stalingrad fall,
        Methinks 27 million Russians died defeating Hitler, twas them what won the war

      2. How we get back to functioning mixed economy and normal interest rate levels,
        Central point of capatalism is the efficient distribution of resources, which relies on moral hazard and creative destruction
        I’m still not clear how we get from here to there

    1. If the Tories retain power then it’s tax increases for everybody (suddenly they will accept the principle of equality) and probably an assault on the only capital remaining, the assets of the older generation especially that held in pensions and property. I think we can be sure the enormous wealth held in tax havens will be safe. A radical Labour government could introduce a tough Wealth Tax on assets (including that in havens) AND property together with progressive taxation of incomes. Wealth needs drastic redistribution in the UK. This might be the opportunity to do it?

      1. Thanks for taking the time to reply, unfortunately it is a little disappointing that you failed to read the above article first

      2. SteveH
        Yes to all of that,
        Normally in history theres an event that makes us rise up and do something about the greed and corruption
        Covid 19 isn’t it
        How does the left take over and start to implement all those actions required to bring sanity and decency back to the financial system
        I really dont know if it’s revolution or evolution
        Good example of fucking Cockwombles in charge at moment
        Ireland is sitting €15 billion tax windfall from Apple
        WTF

      3. Heres best guess
        It was mentioned that farmers will not have enough folk to get crops out of the ground,
        No bog roll is one thing, no food another all together
        Plus No Deal Brexit plus Covid 19 plus Socialism for Billionaires failing will tip us over the edge

      4. No surprise lots of veg is getting grown this year. Funny how ordinary people know 2 or 3 months before Govt what’s going to happen.

      5. There are other problems – such as the closing down of the Justice System including the prisons. And that is quite a problem when you consider it, not least because of a revolt of lawyers who suddenly won’t get paid because there are no cases, nothing much happening. No wonder Lord Sumption the Govt QC of choice who has top of the fee pile laid in today about a Police State. Nor sure whether he was more concerned about walkers in Derbyshire or barristers and solicitors chucked out of work. Not that his Lordship mentioned that aspect.

  5. SteveH at 5.38. What article? The main piece is about France and the unshaven guy advocates greater restrictions.

    1. Ah the one you posted by the tax expert Richard Murphy? I’m no economist so can’t give a critique; what do you think of it? I notice he doesn’t rule out higher taxes to effect a redistribution of wealth. It’s a matter of choice it seems how you tackle it?

      1. Paul – I found it an informative and easily understood read which is quite a rare thing when reading blogs on economics that have been posted by Professors.

  6. Wouldn’t it be a hoot if tackling the coronavirus pandemic brings the far deadlier pandemic of unregulated neoliberalism into the public consciousness?

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