Heroic Question Time audience member lays truth on laughably-termed ‘moderates’ and nails their role in Labour’s defeat – and for good measure the dishonesty of the media, too. Much of the audience seems to agree
A brave member of the BBC Question Time audience laid some truth on the dishonest right of the Labour Party last night – and on the bias of the media.
Earlier on Friday, Unite boss Len McCluskey’s column in the Huffington Post had made it clear that Labour’s move away from honouring the Brexit result was the central factor in Labour’s general election defeat – while right-winger Peter Kyle gave an object lesson in the wilful blindness that McCluskey condemned.
And the unknown audience member picked up that theme and expounded it perfectly in just over fifty seconds – with time to spare for nailing the gross dishonesty and bias of the so-called ‘mainstream’ media as well:
Judging by the applause during and after the comments, many in the audience agreed.
As one Twitter commenter observed, “not all heroes wear capes”.
If you’re a Labour supporter and watch and share only one video today, make it this one.
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This audience member is absolutely right. Right wing MPs who forced Jeremy into adopting a 2nd referendum position lost the General Election for us. The vile press he got every day was another factor but most importantly the MPs who refused to accept internal democracy and spent every waking hour, so it seemed. criticising and undermining Jeremy did us most damage . Unfortunately for them the poison they spread about Jeremy affected their own re-election chances and many of them lost their seats. I can’t be sorry about that
A handful of pro Corbyn candidates lost out too but consider some of the others- MPs who publicly refused to campaign for the party , MPs who shouted from the roof tops that Jeremy is incompetent, an antisemite, a marxist, etc. Nothing was too foul or insulting to say about him and now they have reaped what they sowed – they are unemployed and we are facing 5 more years of dishonesty and austerity by the most hard right government in living memory.
As expected – https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-general-election-results-sadiq-khan-a9245871.html
ie Sadiq Khan. Expect Neil Coyle to start touring the studios like Hodge. ALL treated to SO much “kindness & gentleness” that none was left. Squandered on appeasement. Repaid with what was predicted here and my CLP . The nasties all over the MSM now were named by me here.
“kindness & gentleness” lavished on them. None left for hardworking decent people like Chris Williamson, Ken Livingston, George Galloway, Mark Wandsworth, Jackie Walker and the many Rabbis who took the bother to PUBLISH their evidence in support of Jeremy and the party. None left to mention even once the over 200 distinguished Jews who were lucky to get their similar praise of Jeremy, published in the guardian. Lucky because many other letters were REFUSED publication.
Jeremy can be helped IF he recognises that help is URGENTLY NEEDED in specific areas. So far he has been failed MISERABLY by the NEC and the people around him. The vipers behind him and some ambitious selfish aloof out of touch ones on either side, were and are shameful in the way they collaborated with some behind them and some no longer in parliament. SHAMEFUL. They must never gain ANY position of leadership in our party. One can disagree but it is totally unacceptable that they openly contradicted Jeremy’s initial Brexit position. I speak of Keir Starmer & Thornberry in particular.
Jeremy has what it takes. He has the qualities and vision which Starmer, Cooper, Thornberry, Harman, Lammy, Khan, Coyle, Allan Johnson, David Blunkett, Jack Straw Foney Blair, Ashworth, Woodcock, Mann, Berger, Ummunna have proven over and over that they will NEVER have.
The UMUNNA REPEATED FAILURES & FLUNKS are indicative of the insight of the MSM pundits like Ayesha Hazarika and UMMUNA’s patrons, Blair and Mandelsonn. These repeated failures of the over celebrated were neither highlighted, never mind repeated.
Oh and as predicted here COYLE is out of tge blocks stating that Jeremy & McDonnell should go now. Read past posts, I said the NEC should have stepped in and censored COYLE. Suspend and expel for OPEN sabotage. Admitted poor behaviour. Now he has been reelected on a Labour ticket. As before like Ummuna he claimed it as his own. At least he was smarter than the cuckka ummuna fellow to remain and EXPLOIT the Labour party. Streatham now has a new Labour MP. Bermondsey and Old Southwark, Camberwell … almost ANY Labour constituency could have another Labour MP elected. But the TIRESOME few here, who forever pumped out their ABSOLUTE TOSH of “not now” the already attacking MSM will attack”. Not now “election coming”, not now “campaign running”. I am waiting to hear soon, “not now, it is just after the election”, “not now the attacking MSM will attack”.
⛔️ IF NOT NOW, WHEN⁉️⁉️⁉️ ⛔️
To anyone spouting that anymore, in advance, a very polite sod off. 🌹🌹🌹
As you say , to be expected. I never liked or trusted him since he got Jeremy to stand beside him on the platform when he was seeking election as mayor so that he could scoop up the votes of Jeremy’s supporters and then once safely elected he turned on Jeremy and was very vocal about his contempt for him.
Jeremy has had such a lot to contend with. He has shown himself to be a fearless and principled man. If Sadiq Khan lives to be 100 he’ll never be half the man Jeremy Corbyn is.
exactly. Coyle did the same. Even his first Christmas card dug at Jeremy even though they were both elected because of Jeremy. Because of Jeremy, previous election, i put posters in my windows for the first time…. maybe that’s why i got a card. Not sure. Interestingly, in this HIGHLY political area, this election iv only seen two posters Both Labour. Very odd. Makes me think also that all parties now believe everything is TV and book twitting face stuff. Many people do neither. All Khan’s associates, Ashworth, Harman, Coyle, Streeting, Hodge, David Milliband are to be kept at great length… as far as the Bermuda Triangle … the centre of it. precisely , to be safe.
It is of course perfectly true that from the corrupt, careerist, saboteurs of the Labour Right, to the Guardian and News Statesman, to that ghastly pro NATO and pro EU fanatic and Momentum Member, Paul Mason, the false narrative is being avidly peddled that it was Jeremy’s personal unpopularity, Labours supposed widespread ‘anti-Semitism problem’ , and a rejection of the supposed ‘Far Left radicalism’, of our Manifesto, which led to our historic defeat on Thursday.
But a different, equally bogus, false narrative is also being peddled by the Left press and pro Corbyn Labour ‘Left’, including Skwawkbox. This bogus narrative claims that it was all down to the catastrophic pro Remain and Second Referendum Manifesto policy being ‘foisted on us by the Right’ , that our otherwise remarkably similar to our popular 2017 Manifesto, 2019 Manifesto, bombed completely in our old Labour Heartlands. This is a dangerous self delusion by the Labour ‘Left’ Corbyn supporters. The harsh reality is that there was no section of the Party more wholeheartedly in favour of Labour betraying its 2017 ‘Respecting the Referendum outcome’ commitment than the majority of the supposedly Left Wing ‘Corbynistas’, particularly those organised in Momentum ! Poor isolated Jeremy was also betrayed by his oldest supposedly ‘radical Left’ comrades , John McDonnell and Diane Abbott, with their disastrous announcements that they would support Remain even if Labour negotiated a new Brexit Deal. So poor Jeremy was left isolated as almost the only ‘old Bennite socialist’ with an understanding of the neoliberal nature of the EU left in the PLP, the Shadow Cabinet, and indeed was one of a very few traditional socialists left in our wider membership who understood the neoliberal straightjacket nature of the EU, and could understand the hostility to the EU amongst our working class Labour heartland voters. The bulk of our supposedly ‘woke’ middle class ‘Corbynista’ membership simply wrote off our working class heartland voters as a rabble of knuckle-dragging , racists – or , Guardian propaganda-style, ludicrously claimed that even in our Leave-supporting heartlands, most Labour voters supported Remain !
And why exactly do the overwhelming bulk of our supposed ‘Labour Left’ have no empathy with, or understanding of, the plight of those millions of poorer working class traditional Labour voters, crushed by unlimited labour supply and neoliberalism, we have lost , probably forever, in this catastrophic defeat ? Because the overwhelming bulk of our Party membership are utterly middle class, relatively privileged, personal beneficiaries of the property price inflation of neoliberalism and the cheap Uber taxis and cheap labour generally resultant from the EU’s unlimited labour supply, keen to retain the free healthcare in the EU when they regularly holiday there. This social class who dominate our Party think of themselves as so ‘Left Wing’, but this is not as socialists, with any in depth understanding of capitalism and the potential for a society beyond the market place, it is instead a confused do-gooding, identity politics self obsessed, scatter gun, Left Liberalism, saturated with a profound cognitive dissonance whereby our Corbynistas want policies that would re-nationalise many sectors, boost government spending to end austerity – yet at the same time want to remain in the neoliberal EU and its Single Market rules – which precisely forbid any of this happening !
Without the re-building of a genuinely politically educated mass membership within Labour, (and I have no idea how such a thing can be done – given our now service-based economy and the demise of the old big battalions of the industrial working class) – the confused Left Liberalism of the ‘Corbynista Left’ will continue to trap our activist membership in the political frame of reference of the Labour Right. Today , despite their belief that they are just sooooooo different politically to the corrupt old Labour Right and centre, most of the Left Liberal Corbynistas are actually just operating ideologically on the same basic pro-capitalist spectrum – but just at the do-gooding ‘Left ‘ liberal end of that spectrum – with no more understanding of capitalism or the alternative of socialism, than the Labour Right. That being the case, and the harsh reality that despite our historic defeat, most of our Party’s ‘ Corbynista Left’ STILL want to stay in the neoliberal EU – there is no chance of Labour recovering our Labour heartland voters – any more than we can recover our voters in Scotland – particularly as local Labour councils corrupt and crony-infested as most are, in those heartlands, from Wrexham to Grimsby, continue to implement Austerity without demur for the Tories. So who will then offer to fight for the working class poorest and oppressed in our old heartlands now ? The terrifying answer to that is of course the opportunist scapegoaters of the radical Far Right !
I trust as an actual member of the WC, democratic socialist, and someone who does understand the neoliberal policies now at the heart of EU prescriptions, that I’m not included in your analysis of the Corbynista, particularly given I’ve never been a member of Momentum and voted Leave in 2016 – I also opposed the LPs conversion to full on Remain via its Second Referendum, and noted that this did not sit well with other working class voters who felt not only ignored, but betrayed, betrayed by the London set. And, this London set is still at it, claiming it was JC, rather than their crass Brexit policy that lost many a heartland seat.
That’s a very long-winded defence of the indefensible.
There’s always been an element of Labour’s working class vote that’d vote for an Oswald Moseley or an Enoch Powell in a heartbeat and it’s high time we learned to do without the support of the pig-ignorant, racist, cap-touching, Tory-loving scum.
And leave them to reap what they’ve sown…
‘Bang on John.
But give us hope.
The real working class Left Wing are coming.
And the Neo-Liberals can’t cope!”
X
Without analysis and hope we are nothing!
timfrom wins the prize for the wonderfully ignorant, smug, comment to my post ! So all those millions of working class ex Labour voters in our former heartlands are just fascists ? Thankyou for demonstrating just how our Party, both on its right and left pro EU wings, failed to understand the suffering in our Labour heartlands and by adopting Remain wiped us out as a potential party of government. The smug middle class pro EU Labour ignoramus reveals himself in just one arrogant post !
I have never felt such anger coupled with despair in my entire life. Was at the count and most of the room was in disbelief at the outcome. The lies and smears aided by our MSM/Press were the worst I’ve ever witnessed in my 63 years. My resolve to fight is emboldened.
and repeat Repeat REPEAT R E P E A T R E P E A T
when we feel embarrassed to repeat these points, repeat a thousand times more…. then 51% of the electorate may have it in mind… amongst competing immediate VISIBLE concerns EG: has Myrtle done her homework? What time is Septimus’ needle point group? Why does Reece keep eating the cat food? and defecating on the lawn?
When Brown finally saw the back of Blair, i asked a near neighbour in a HIGHLY politically alive area… i asked “what do you think of your new PM? The person had not the slightest idea! … after three weeks!!! Heard a MSM package saying that this GE was also out of minds of many. We must never forget that. We have the interest and i believe pay necessary attention to current affairs, but others no. They are neither bad nor stupid. Were we all the same, the world would not run. Even the a, r, s etc are needed. When our message fails to connect, we must ask why and improve. We must do it…. and repeat whats works, THEN have a good rest… repeatedly…
i need it … shattered 😊😊😊
Facts: Brexit matters in northern constituencies, southern remainers and wine bar socialists hate that ignorant northerners won’t do as we are told and what you decide is good for us.
Jeremy is a disaster for most lab voters, IRA supporting ‘let’s take Britain back to the 1970’s’ with TU reforms and crackpot financial promises were laughed at north of Watford.
What’s the point of a party leadership that can’t gain power from the most inept Tory campaign in decades with a leader in BoJo the clown that everyone thinks is an inept liar and fool?
I see we have either a UKIP Party representative on these boards, or a Brexit Party on these Boards posting. I trust Plain Citizen – a moral coward who can’t post under his/her true identity, could please explain to me what the fuck was wrong with the 70’s, I mean I grew up in the 70’s and witnessed no homelessness, witnessed people with well paid jobs and witnessed no starvation of my peers in Infant School, Primary School and Secondary School – although Maggie Thatcher did steal our free daily milk – so, Plain Citizen, you are not a plain citizen, you are a fascist, a fascist who don’t speak for Leave voting Leftwingers like myself, or my working class peer group regardless of which way they voted Thursday. Now be off with you.
Anyone who disagrees with you is a fascist!? Last refuge of the totalitarian scoundrels. 1970’s: bailed out by the IMF, 3 day week, need I go on? To working class traditional labour those days resonate. You remember show of hands mass meetings, shamefully manipulated by those with a greater interest in revolutionary socialism than the democratic kind. Jeremy was promising a return to all that. He wanted to scrap any TU legislation since then. To real labour supporters not immature romantics those were bad days. Look at your history comrades. His support of Hamas and Maduro were ridiculous. His election giveaways weren’t costed in any real sense. Enjoy your chats in the wine bars of Westminster comrades.
I suspect our “Plain citizen” is the same person as the fascist moron who posts below the line in the Independent.Though here he (and I am pretty sure it is a he) is trying to tone down his racist persona a little.
Christopher, posters calling themselves such names as ‘plain citizen’ are generally corporate trolls. Its an easy moniker to make up. I remember another such corporate troll who called herself ‘working nurse’ on comment boards of newspapers when the article was about Atos. She was full of praise for Atos and used to write drivel such as “At my atos assessment i was treated very well and was awarded full points”
I sussed her out early on and used to refer to her as ‘fat lady’. That really got her goat!
A couple of points Plain Citizen ,
1.Lets see you do better than Corbyn , with the tsunami of shit he got for four yrs, I reckon you’d be a gibbering wreck in 5 mins flat.
2.You have swallowed the utter lies of the MSM and have regurgitated them in your diatribe.You start out with the statement as Facts , well maybe you’d best start with the facts on Corbyns performance and involvement with the peace initiatives in Ireland ( now at peace ) and elsewhere in the World , your ignorance is plain to see .
3.The “crack pot ” financial promises you refer to , in fact was a carefully fully worked out funding for our manifesto verified by leading world economist as credible and deliverable , now compared to the fantasy of the Tory one …… well I leave that there for you to try and justify .
4.Finally you may want to examine your own words and beliefs regarding Corbyn , question how and where you had your impression and your mind made up for you by the very establishment driven press you see and read , without you doing any critical analysis of why they lie and what they want you to think.
The Tory campaign was anything BUT inept with a multi-billion pound machine backing it up . You are a fool or as Christopher , below intones , a UKIPer , either way same thing
Rob, see my reply to Christopher above.
We have bought and paid for the Labour party brand and we are the Labour party and socialism is the only way.We have the largest socialist party in Europe so why would we leave.ITs on your bike time for the moderate toy town right and take a look at the Best leader we have ever had and be ashamed of yourselves.
Maybe, had the PLP been inhabited by honest, fearless persons such this individual on Question Time, the LP would not have taken an hiding on Thursday, instead, we have benches full of cowards, liars and anti-democrats, which does not augur well for the future I’m afraid, particularly given the PLP believes its the Labour Movement personified, and those of us of the genuine Left are the enemy, which makes them Tory scum in my book.
The audience member nailed it 100%.
I might have gone further by saying that the BBC itself is so heavily biased in favour of tories, as well as pretty much all the rest of MSM.
However, there are many decent people who do work/appear on the BBC – involved in various kinds of documentaries about the natural world or science, in various sports broadcasting, comedy etc. Three off the top of my head would be Sir David Attenborough, Gary Lineker, Nish Kumar – there are obviously more.
I would request that those decent people came together to refuse to work with the BBC while it fails to be a genuine public service broadcaster!
No Corbyn supporter on the panel. What a surprise!
Kinnock says about longstanding Labour voters who could not vote Labour because of Corbyn. Who was the leader then in 2017?
Clearly, such voters do exist. So why not ask them why and engage them in a discussion about Corbyn?
Alternatively, why not produce a leaflet about Corbyn in order to win over such voters.
No evidence at all that Kinnock did any of this.
A political party has no divine right to exist. The job of the candidate is to persuade and not simply to go round harvesting votes that are already there.
You never hear a firefighter complain that he might have to rescue people from a burning building so why do people like Kinnock think that it is not their job to try to persuade?
Kinnock was very quick to dismiss any consideration of the role of the media in the result.
He also praised a past Labour government for joining NATO. What he did not mention is that in 1983 a NATO exercise, Able Archer, very nearly got us all killed:
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/06/able-archer-almost-started-a-nuclear-war-with-russia-in-1983.html
Can I ask a serious question. If the RW are positioning to take back control & I have read that there aren’t enough left wing PLP to nominate a left wing candidate for leadership what is the point of staying in the party, it would seem it is lost & I will never ever vote for a RW Labour Party.
I am being totally honest here and would appreciate some input before we resign.
Please don’t just say stay & fight because if a LW candidate is never going to get on the ballot there is no point.
I have been supporting Left Wing Media & prevalent on Twitter & Facebook in support of LP under JC, I’m getting on now 69 in 3 months time and I’m so deflated, I just don’t think I have anymore fight left in me anyway.
Hear hear!
Hilary ” If ⛔️ the RW are positioning to take back control & I have read ⛔️ that there aren’t enough left wing PLP to nominate a left wing candidate for leadership what is the point ⛔️of staying in the party, it would seem ⛔️ it is lost & I will never ever vote for a RW Labour Party.”
Hilary if we all gave up on “IF”s where would we be? There are lots of things that people read. From my CLP it is packed with potential. In need of the stuff i’v posted about, but i have no doubt of the great potential. Deep cultural/attitude changes needed yes. Lack of “left” potential, definitely not. “… SEEM…” speaks for itself. ie not IS. Definitely make it known you will NEVER vote for a RW CANDIDATE. The way to do that is join the party if you have not already, ASAP. Join a Union that suits you and best supports Jeremy. Remember perfection does not exist. Don’t make the best sniff out the good. Get involved in your CLP if you can. Then you cam play an ACTIVE part in your CLP in selecting candidates etc. It is EXTREMELY time consuming , sometimes frustrating but really stimulating in a strange way. Just checked there are 505 new messages coming from our 4 groups… and that is just in the last two hours. We needed to form extra groups as it was thought at each stage another was needed✅✅✅ Apologies if you are doing all that already. But certainly all the people i’v met in our J supporting groups are people easy to admire and love, though not all are as i would like re focus on here and now etc heartlands etc, but some are now realising that is vital.
So the points i make in my posts are made from close observation and comparing with my experience in the world. The solicitor / theoretical PPE quotient is much too high, Yes. We definitely need THROUGHOUT the party more people who have worked in everything INCLUDING at home bringing up children. There is tremendous potential just waiting to be celebrated. Post people, Plumbers, Doctors, scientists, tree surgeons, ex prisoners, … in fact even prisoners could contribute input … via a phone etc. Shocking yes. But from listening to prisoners speak on LBC esp, even right wing presenters are impressed. We need people like them who have had the luxury of QUIET ish reflection. Their ability to communicate puts many an MP and CLP member to shame. And other that lots of MPs, i was stunned at the excellent communication skills in my CLP… even of the wuite unpleasant aggressive ones. But the Jeremy supporting ones are brilliant … perhaps a bit too gentle, like Jeremy.
Anyway Hilary also especially aft this long election, get a good proper rest for a few days, stay off Social Media. Don’t even talk or listen to politics. Treat your self with some pleasant absorbing diversion. REST. Makes a big difference. We all need that proper change of scene and focus to recharge. And i will take my own advice.
😊😊😊
There is the voice of truth. Look at Pinnocio, there is the face. of all that is foul in the PLP. At least I can now stop kidding myself in the face of reason. Perhaps things can move on now but we have to clean out Agean Stables. Long job but we have five years. Chins up comrades it is called the struggle.
HI Hillary , firstly it is just day 2 after the defeat , much too soon to be thinking of resigning. There will be many of us who feel similarly worried BUT is not the Socialists ideal that Solidarity and Unity is the way forward , so you are not alone , there are 500K of us in Labour many who joined because of JC and the revival of a Socialist party away from Blairite Centrists.
Now how many of them resigned when they lost 2 elections in a row ?
JC is stil here and will be around till early on next yr even then he will ALWAYS be with us as a MP and effective party member .
I can only say what I will be doing ….
I am going to wait to see how things progress over the next months , remembering that there is one hell of an organisation called Momentum not to mention good left wing Unions who would fight the Centrists tooth and nail to prevent a right wing coup.
I suspect that if there is not a left wing candidate on the ballot paper then the reaction from the membership would be catastrophic for the Centrists and the party .. think revolution …..
There will always be a way and there will always be hope , OK it’s a bit dull and battered right now and that is to be expected , it wouldn’t be normal if we all didn’t feel a little down.
But time will help , tomorrow will be different than today and is better than yesterday as we all come to terms with what has happened .
P.S I am 310 and still fighting !!!! so at 69 you’re a spring chicken !
Thanks Rob, your last paragraph made me laugh. We will hold off resigning to see what happens in the next few months but I’m not optimistic.
I have never been enthused by politics, yes I always voted but since JC became leader I realised he was such a special person, his ethos exhilarated me.
At the time JC became leader I was politically homeless after being a life long LibDem & vowed never to vote for them again after 2010. Never in my lifetime have I witnessed such an honest caring MP,
I honestly believe this is the end for democracy in the UK & a new era of Dictatorship with a facist in charge is beginning,
I fear for the UK & it’s citizens I really do.
Now that we have a dictatorship they will close down any form of resistance they’ve already started to attack LW media, I’m struggling to see a way forward out of this, Johnson illegally Prorogued Parliament has no regard for the truth or the citizens of the UK has no respect for democracy & now that he has such a commanding majority he can do whatever the hell he wants & it will be at our expense.
When people wake up to what they’ve inflicted upon us and they will with one hell of a shock, the only way I can see to dislodge his grip on the Country is by a revolution but it won’t happen. The ones that voted this vile regime back into power are like lambs willingly going to the slaughter.
You should take-heart Hilary. The threshold is quite low now. Below is the relevant extract from our 2019 Rule Book.
Page 21. Clause II.
Procedural rules for elections for
national officers of the Party
2. Election of leader and deputy leader
A. The leader and deputy leader shall be elected
separately in accordance with rule C below,
unless rule E below applies.
B. Nomination
i. In the case of a vacancy for leader or
deputy leader, each nomination must be
supported by 10 per cent of the combined
Commons members of the PLP and
members of the EPLP and either:
a) 5 per cent of CLPs; or
b) At least 3 affiliates (at least 2 of which
shall be trade union affiliates)
compromising 5 per cent of affiliated
membership
https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Rule-Book-2019.pdf
Absolutely right on antisemitism, the Blairite PLP and the media.
Absolutely wrong on the Brexit stance – any other would have antagonised *more* voters. It was another issue where the media propaganda campaign won it – all of a piece.
Honour the result of the Referendum or you are a liar & a fraud!
PLP are fraudsters & many traditional Labour Party voters told their Labour MPs on Thursday, what they thought……you can’t fool all the people all of the time as the Labour Party follows Jo Swinson into oblivion.
Bugger off RH,even now you reuse to let reality in.Sigh!.
Re your comnent to me: I do not post in independent, I am not racist. You and others do not and will not show any evidence where my statements are wrong especially re ’70’s’. Instead you and your spawn call me a racist and fascist. No wonder you wine bar socialists are reviled and despised by working class labour supporters. Have another glass of Chardonnay comrade.
Re Pain Citizen , I have done so in my comments to you with as much evidence as you have produced in your original statements ( actually they are just your opinions ) and it is telling that you do not try and dispute the items 2 , 3 of them.
Nor do you /can you justify the Tory Manifesto esp regarding how Johnson will actually “get Brexit done” .
Now I suggest that unless you can substantiate your original diatribe that you face the probability that John Thatcher is indeed correct about you …
Ps I am not Spawn nor do I like champagne either , both typical epithets of a troll style response
That should of course read refuse to let reality in.
A perfect example of the Toytown left. Still flogging hobby horses; immune to reality; using the term ‘working class’ as a patronising badge of honour whilst having no idea about its diversity inreality; strong on moronic insults – weak on argument.
The current thread on John McDonald provides a perfect illustration of the futility – sadly led by the Skwawkbox spin so reminiscent of SunMail crap.
How to be a politically irrelevant bystander in one easy lesson.
RH I appreciate how you still think and some of your thoughts /comments are insightful , however , there is a mountain of evidence that the bullying of JC by the PLP to accept a remain option was the death of our election chances, vis the astounding response in 2017 Vs the destruction of 2019.
Yes to a degree the MSM onslaught and the bastard RW Blairite MPS in the PLP feeding lies into it played a part , but that was similar in 2017 , even then there was false AS accusations etc . The inescapable fact is that the only difference was the Brexit remain option and the disrespect of the Referendum result as seen by those in our Northern Red Wall .
They ” screamed ” at us in Labour for help and to be listened to , the only weapon they had was the referendum to do that , JC heard that loud and clear in 2017 BUT the PLP didn’t or more likely chose deliberately to ignore it and bullied / forced him / us to accept the remain option .That was Twatsons legacy , knowing it would mean a certain defeat in the North for sure.
Can you now imagine how shit that felt ,, basically the “Southerner Westminster ” MPS and how that would have been seen up in the towns of Bolsover etc ??
Had we stuck to the 2017 position then yes we may have alienated some folks in the South and poss lost Canterbury ( they still voted for us even then in 2017 tho didn’t they ! ) but our losses were far far greater up in our heartlands .
So its over , to continue to push is destructive and a waste of time/energies.
More important IMO is to fight the oncoming RW coup , too put ones energies into supporting the few LW and good MPs we have and to help those in Labour who wish to engineer a LW Leader onto the ballot .
Screw the PLP Blairites bastards at every step of the way , we have 5 yrs to sort this and I hope Conference this coming yr will be that battle ground , to rout out those responsible and neutralise their poisonous influence once and for all. The Libtards awaits them !
The JVL I hope will deal with the JLM and Momentum will provide the troops / support on the front line with the party bureaucrats , this will be a battle on many fronts and one we cannot loose to the RWingers , but I think in the time ahead the party will transform further from a compromised mish mash with the old Blairites and the new hope that JC brought to a full on Democratic Socialist party where we really listen to our base and act accordingly in supporting their needs and issues on a local not centrally dictated basis.
rob – I appreciate your considered post. And, for what it’s worth, – for clarity.- disagreement is not what I define as the ‘Toytown left’.
But I do disagree that ‘there is a mountain of evidence that the bullying of JC by the PLP to accept a remain option ‘.
Remember – the Party membership and its support were strongly against Brexit. This was true in all social/occupational classes : it was a minority who favoured Brexit.
The Party, as a consequence, was visibly shedding members to the LibDems and Greens., although the countervailing force was a loyalty not seen among what id delusionally called the ‘core vote’ (already arguably largely Tory) in the old industrial seats.
To not have accepted a ‘Remain’ option would have shredded the real Party (i.e those with a commitment rather than a knee-jerk historical voting tendency).
The outcome – the second referendum was a sensible, balanced way of reconciling the essentially irreconcilable (Brexit was never an issue for compromise – by definition). Only fanatics who just wanted their own way opposed this democratic route; there was no sustainable argument against it in a properly democratic society – it had already been demolished by having this referendum.
The Brexit issue was, indeed, an ‘issue’ in this election – but only in the same way as every other issue : shaped by the most extraordinarily biased media campaign that any of us have ever witnessed. It shaped the Brexit vote in the first place, then went on to destroy Corbyn. If the Brexit vote is a valid irrevocable expression of considered thought, then Corbyn is the incompetent, Stalinist, racist monster portrayed by the MSM. Because that was the main reason given by the gullible for voting Tory!
The Labour Party now faces a serious rift between left and right. Much will depend on who becomes leader. If it’s a Centrist who accepts the racist slur then many won’t be able to go along with that. No doubt that suits the right who without mass resignations don’t stand a chance. When we see people like Hodge ‘calling it for Labour’ we can only despair. If the right capture Labour then the only alternative is a new left party; it’s likely to have more members than any Hodge administration. It may be the only way to shake off the racist right who are so focused on Israel and it’s ‘safety’ as it girds up for the war against Iran which would have been more difficult if Labour had won.
Replacing Corbyn with an anti-socialist, pro-Israel, Labour leader is now top priority for the divide-and-rule, 24/7 right-wing media brainwashing by right-wing billionaire media moguls and right-wing state broadcaster BBC. A government for the many not the few, is absurdly unrealistic in this totally corrupt system based on greed, privilege, gross inequality, gross injustices against the poor, sick, vulnerable, etc. Tragic for justice but welcome to the so-called ‘free press’ and so-called ‘democracy’ UK style!
Jack Straw has said that there cannot be a Corbyn Mk2. We must ensure that there is.
Resigning is the last thing anyone on the left should do because it will allow the RW/centrists to take over the LP. The membership will vote for Corbyn’s replacement and we must ensure that they are a worthy heir/ess.
Can we find someone like this?.
‘The country faces a bright future’: Finnish readers on their new PM
We asked readers in Finland to share their thoughts on the country’s new prime minister. Here’s what some of them said
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/10/the-country-faces-a-bright-future-finland-readers-on-their-new-pm
Comrades, meet Finland’s new PM
Sanna Marin makes her debut at this week’s EU summit after a surprise promotion.
Marin’s youth — she’s 34 — has attracted a great deal of attention in recent days, as has a photo showing the leaders of all five parties in the Finnish governing coalition — all of whom are female.
Marin is further to the left than her predecessor (and often starts her speeches by addressing fellow party members as “comrades”), which will inevitably lead to friction with the industry-friendly Centre Party. “She is the most left-wing prime minister this country has ever had,” said one senior MP from the center-right National Coalition Party, who didn’t want to be named.
The new prime minister has been very critical of calls to limit the number of refugees Finland accepts, and has campaigned for the country to be carbon neutral by 2035. She would like to raise income and capital gain taxes in order to improve care for the elderly, and is dead against NATO membership.
Marin’s politics were shaped by her upbringing in a working class family in the industrial city of Tampere. Her father struggled with alcoholism and after her parents separated, Marin was brought up by her mother and her mother’s new female partner.
“Without the strong Finnish welfare state and its education system, I would not have had the opportunities to succeed in my career. Growing up in a rainbow family, it is obvious that I value both equality and human rights,” she told the Helsingin Sanomat daily earlier this year..
https://www.politico.eu/article/sanna-marin-comrades-meet-finland-new-prime-miniester/
The photo of the Minister of Education, the Minister of Interior, the Prime Minister Sanna Marin and the Minister of Finance is quite striking.
https://g8fip1kplyr33r3krz5b97d1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/GettyImages-1187620687-1082×720.jpg
It’s interesting that – despite not being free of political problems – Finland has the most widely admired education system in Europe, whilst no-one would praise the UK record over the period of a generation.
Keep going lads and lasses get it out of your systems because on monday we need to get back to work
Regards
Very well said, that man.
The media conditions how people think, when to be angry and what to be angry with.