“We in this government seek to leave without a deal”
Michael Gove made a very telling ‘Freudian slip’ during his appearance in the House of Commons today to push the government line on its sham ‘negotiations’ with the EU – and its attempt to pin the blame for the impending and entirely planned ‘collapse’ of the talks on those pesky foreigners.
“We in this government seek to leave without a deal”
Gove launched into a string of patent untruths about supposed flexibility and compromise by the Johnson government – whose sketchy proposal on an alternative solution for Northern Ireland would be laughably vague and unworkable if there was anything to smile about.
But he couldn’t quite carry it off without a little truth slipping out:
The Tories continue in their cowardice and dishonesty – determined to plunge the UK into a no-deal Brexit but desperate to shift the blame onto anyone but themselves.
But Gove’s slip is a rare, if unintentional, exception that only exposes the Johnson-Cummings norm.
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It was said in Parliament when the deal was laid out before them that it was a plan designed to fail. they knew it we knew it, it is a determined effort to go for a no deal Brexit
Possibly.
But it could, perhaps, be an ‘excited utterance’.
Years ago, in the TV series ‘The Expert’, a student was in court and he accidentally said about the death of a fellow student:
“It was an accident”
He then realised the importance of what he said and sought (unsuccessfully) to correct the damage:
“I mean, it must have been.”
The ‘government’s’ ‘strategy’ is falling apart to all but the duggie knuckle-dragger brigade, who will continue to swallow the shit peddled by the Sun’n’ Mail brigade and think its sugar.
The art for Labour is to keep nudging them to self-destruct .
RH. Theyve already fallen apart the captains steering the ship to the rocks ,ably assisted by the DUP crew for a No deal….
Which they’re doing 😜
“No Deal” the ONLY option which gives us sovereignty over public ownership.
1945 reforms legally impossible under our present supranational obligations – including nationalisation of hospitals without compensation to create NHS.
So you’ve said.
But, more importantly gives the US sovereignty over the UK.
Dream on.
not true – there are many nationalised services in the eu
Danny you know I respect your opinion and its a opinion of many but I will sacrifice almost anything for a Corbyn led Labour government.Its a calculated risk and without the input from socialists like you and Corbyn the Democratic socialist Labour project Will fail..Unity is Important but debate is essential….!
In an ideal World Labour wins the GE and an agreement with the EU goes ahead on the basis of the UK staying in both the Customs Union and Single Market, protecting industry and retaining membership of the largest Free Trade Union in the World. N Ireland wouldn’t be an issue.
Paul….Occupied Ireland will always be an issue !…Brexit just makes it obvious!
Ireland isn’t ‘occupied’. Keep real and accurate. It’s divided.
Yes it bloody well is,the North was deliberately colonised to break the last hold out of “Celtic” Ireland.Or are you going to come out with the colonists story that it was an “empty landscape” when they got there.Some of it was,because Sir Francis Chichester and his ilk had burned out and/or murdered the native Irish before hand.
RH You seem to have problems with reality…a bit lke Bozzo the clown.Thats why we are in this mess.
Scratching at the history and myths of Ireland as if time was static will only give you a bigger festering sore. This is *now*, and *now* is why the Good Friday Agreement is so important, and, conversely, why Brexit is so stupid. Your comparison of my remarks to those of to Mr Toad is a symptom of a lack of perspective.
Inaccurate, hyperbolic language really doesn’t help. If you want ‘occupation’ : see ‘Palestine’ for a definition. I reckon the pre-Brexit situation in Ireland would be seen as a welcome alternative to their reality.
RH…You are old enough to realise that the Occupied part of Ireland has been held by force for 350years.Armed police force operated from the Barracks,Milatary presence, concentration camps,political prisoners and an armed uprising .innocent civilians murdered by British snipers,detention without trial,land occupation and the natives burnt out.Very similar situation to Palestine and backed by very simaliar people Whats wrong with you,can’t you understand that the situation in Palestine and Ireland are very much the same and is it just a case of lodjic goes out the window when the British interfere in what should beIreland’s choice….Last weeks comment from you was …The Irish are being particularly Adult at the moment?.Would you be so free and clever with the sarcasm if we were Jewish or black or Asian…no you wouldn’t but thats okay then is it? because we are used to it?…..Do you realise that your attitude mirrors Boris Johnson’s attitude to Ireland.
“the situation in Palestine and Ireland are very much the same”
Joseph – you condemn your argument immediately. The situations are in no ways similar, and chucking around barmy insults doesn’t alter the fact.
I’m perfectly aware of the history of Ireland, but translating history into a mythology of aggrieved self-righteousness and treating victimhood as a badge never served any purpose in terms of moving forward. The island of Ireland is what it is *now*, and continual bellyaching about historical wrongs are the problem, not the solution to issues that require pragmatism rather than tribalism based on competing mythologies.
The worst aspect of what has happened in the last three years is that the majority of the population has been shown not to give a stuff about Ireland rather than valuing it as an ‘occupied’ territory.
RH has not heard of the Plantation of Ulster, and obviously is not knowledgable about Irish history, did he know Northern Ireland was originally to be 9 counties but because of the superior Catholic demographics they reduced it to 6, A border in Northern Ireland divides the country once again but yet again the british are pissing all over any uniting of the communities, we are stirring a hornets nest,
Of course I have.
It doesn’t alter my argument one bit. Read more carefully.
Again – I’ll reiterate the central point :
Continually scratching at the sores of history is an irrelevance to moving forward in a situation of a long-established situation two cultures.
That is entirely different to the invalid comparison of the recent and contemporary occupation of Palestine.
And this impending disaster maybe gives a United Ireland the impetus to do it?
Paul.The impending disaster is the Tory government working with the DUP to exploit bigotory and sectarianism for political purpose.The DUP are defunct and have no mandate to speak for Ireland.The Trashing of the Good Friday agreement is a striking bit of international vandalism that the British government will have to answer for..Torys Hate the Labour led agreement with the urging of the DUP and some Labour party collaberators the Good Friday agreement Will be destroyed by our colonialist politicians.Ireland and all the Irish including the loyalist community are little more than pawns in a bonfire of hate and division used for narrow political gain.And most of the world can see it but some are blind.in following the Torys!
Yes, England was an imperialist nation but it wasn’t the only one.
Yes, it used divide and rule policies to plunder its empire, as did every other nation with an empire since the beginning of time.
Where would Northern Ireland’s historic suffering fit in the table of human atrocities? Above or below the enslavement of Africans, the genocide of Native Americans North and South, the Holocaust or the partition of India?
Where would its present day suffering fit in a list that included Rwanda, the Iran-Iraq war, the Gulf wars, South Africa, Palestine, Bosnia or Syria?
The hatred of Catholics and Protestants for each other in NI is disproportionate beyond reason.
Calling the present situation of NI an occupation is fooling no-one Joseph.
Fact the part of Ireland occupied is Ulster and is not even geographically correct.This mess in the Occupied Ireland has for many years been recognised by the Labour party and our leader Jeremy Corbyn.I Ireland r moved on and is a modern europeon democracy and still the island of Ireland remains divided along the gerrymandered borders..The Labour party have shown good sense in Ireland and recently stopped those in the Labour party who wish to overrule a long standing tradition of keeping out of Ireland by not allowing the party to run candidate’s under the Labour banner..to forbid them from standing.Palestine was left in a post colonial mess,but you seem unable to get your head round the colonisation of Ireland.It’s not religion its race and Ireland does not remain trapped in a 1600s mindset but some of the British do but not the Democratic socialist Labour and all true socialists..So David don’t fall back on the old myth of the struggle in Ireland being about religion,its no more religion than trying to dress up Palestinian freedom as just a religious conflict..You a decent human being demonstrate to me why the British can never be even handed and are distrusted on all matters of Ireland.and the Irish..Ireland has moved on into the 21st century.Now all we need to do is democratize the British system of establishment government and peace will break out..
So,if the Zionists in Palestine can hold on long enough,their colonising will become ownership David.Is there a particular time period that has to pass before this occurs?
OK John & Joseph, we’ll find out who owned Ulster before the invasion 400-odd years ago and give it to their descendants shall we?
There might be some documents missing so I expect there’ll have to be a court case or two.
“How exactly would it be possible to right this and all the other ancient wrongs?” is my only question, if that wasn’t clear.
Why don’t you try answering my question to you about Palestine David.It is even more relevant given your mention of documents etc.
John, ask me again in 400 years.
Suggesting that more might be achieved by putting unchangeable history behind you, assuming you’re one of the injured parties, is not the same as being an apologist for oppression.
In answer to John’s question is that the situation in Palestine is about current support for the invasion of the territory, not a remote historical argument.
As to when tribal war-dances become irrelevant, I’ve no specific timescale in mind., but the attempt to equate Ireland with Palestine just emphasizes the difference of the situations between contemporary and historical issues.
The only real parallel is the bonkers idea that the territory of Israel as a ‘Jewish homeland’ comes from a mythologised history dating from the iron age, FFS. That is where a stuck mythologised history gets you – into conflict.
Remember,it is not about these people being there,it is about them being in the six counties or Palestine and claiming the right to say it is part of another country.That makes both equally current!.
Please David, if you haven’t lived it STFU
“Please David, if you haven’t lived it STFU”
Because only the people who have lived it could possibly have the answers?
You’d count those who’ve lived it from the other side of the wall among the cognoscenti of course… wouldn’t you?
I’m guessing only your side really understand though, right?
You have the right and they have the wrong, right?
With all that expertise I can’t understand why you’re still exactly where you were 400 years ago – when protestants burned catholics and catholics burned protestants in England too.
Strange how we outside Ireland who understand nothing have managed to put all that history behind us where it belongs and have stopped murdering each other, isn’t it?
The simple fact is you see only what you want to see and you’ve learned nothing since you were brainwashed at six.
No offence.
I can’t get to comment on the other new post about internal party manoeuvring,is that deliberate?
John Thatcher I doubt Squawk box would be so deliberate ,but internal manoeuvring is a particular problem for the Labour party with so many leadership ambitions and a so called broad church infiltration we couldn’t pick a worse time for division.Democratic socialist Labour party should be the only broad church inside the Labour party.Many forget the Labour party has a constitution unlike the country…..regards comrade.
The reason I ask is because usually when we are not allowed to comment(nearly always on Zionists ans Israel)the comment facility is simply not available.With this I can click to comment but it comes up “page unknown” or words to that effect.
Dirty linen in public put back in the washing basket 🙂
It has been obvious for some time that the operations of the NEC and around the LOTO are – to be polite – a bit shambolic.
I have no immediate insight into culpability – but as sure as eggs is eggs, the blame game will surface (yawn) and the caravan will shamble on.
Sorry to be a cynic – but the same story doesn’t fascinate with greater repetition, even if the Demon of the Day changes. It’s no good moaning about the media if you feed them raw meat.
However, a grip needs to be got to avoid the public shambles that was evidenced at times at Conference – as Fisher indicated. Thank heaven for the diverting shambles of the Tories.
John Thatcher I think Squawk box has taken a decision to avoid any AS comments being broadcast by us and thats often misinterpreted or spun to slant.a story.Squawkbox is monitored by alsorts of people who wish to not only inform themselves but may wish to cause mischief. Many mps browse this site for a reality check,but it’s not working!
John.Thatcher. And theres non so blind as those that cannot see..RH and he thinks its all historical and history…I wish that was true.good points you made but y are wasting your time and good argument .We shall always support the Labour socialist veiw that interference by the British establishment is counter productive,especially with the Tory Dup attempting to use Ireland as a political football whilst kick starting the troubles to justify their very existence as a political party..Times running out for a socialist Labour government and we will once again fight for democracy and a Better Britain…I think we just might win this time if the Torys lib dems allow an election,but do Turkey’s vote for xmass? …
I’m very concerned re the other post re John McD which I cant comment on? Why on earth would John be trying to isolate Jeremy? Have you been hacked?
Sue. I have not seen that,but would be interested to know more?
The Tories have form on Freudian slips.
https://twitter.com/el4jc/status/870925430039228416?lang=en
“” The Irish are not great singers,but they sing great songs “” ..Josephine Bernadette Devlin..Peoples democracy for cival rights and independent socialist mp …..for Ulster.13 bullets in her body courtesy of the British establishment and still fighting for the oppressed and the immigrants t inUlster.
Skwarkie blithely retweets that “we need a real change in the way the country is run” with regard to renationalising Royal Mail.
But *ahem* re-establishing Royal Mail’s public monopoly can only be done OUTSIDE the EU.
The liberalisation directive on postal services (unrepealable in practical terms) requires the maintenance of a market, and EU competition law requires that governments do not favour publicly owned companies over privately owned ones.
For a “real change” in the way the country is run, we have to leave the EU and adopt a dynamic programme of comprehensive democratic socialist economic planning
https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/10/09/corbyn-has-turned-his-back-on-his-beliefs/
Danny…you are right on EU interpretation of the law at present,but with a country that has produced many good negotiators,I am hoping that a Labour party negotiation with the EU will be able to acheive an amicable solution.The pro capitalist agenda is being rejected in Europe and beyond.Surely its a risk worth taking for a socialist Labour government and a Europ e free from the repeat wars that has lasted over seventy years now Labour acheived a peace in Ireland and the Tory Dup need another war in Ireland for a distraction…..give corbyn and peace a chance!….regards comrades
Danny
The article shows how the average centrist sells out, it gives no evidence of JC selling out,
I agree with one comment about him not getting rid of his opponent’s when he had the chance
The system that supports EU neo liberalism died under a mountain of debt in 2007, we currently live in a zombie economy,
Look at Portugal and show us how we cannot make the progress this country is crying out for,
When it comes down to Labour brino v No Brexit result will be 80/20 and this cheap and nasty Tory shitstorm will be nought but a bad dream
Amazing how use of the language of crass generalisations can foster hatred & reflects how people think. England colonised what………? The elite class of Great Britain aka landowning aristocracy, abused the poor working class, using them as cannon fodder throughout history, supported by the bourgeoisie. It was & is ever thus. Blaming English people, who for most of our history have been unable to read or write is……….ignorant. The class struggle is perpetual; the cause of nationalism just another chapter in the book of hate. We live in the British Isles & our blood has been intermingled for generations & the divisions arbitrary. We the people are British……….
Eh?
Stephanie Richardson Quotation IT did not seem to me that prejudice poverty discrimination and racism were confined to the North of Ireland.I could see them everywhere….I spoke and still cannot comprehend the mentality that argues that I should have pretended not to see them….because it wasn’t my business.! .Josephine Bernadette Devilin.and independent mp socialist.on addressing the Tory establishment.And so do I blame the establishment and not my socialist comrades..!My early years of the sixtys were confined to civil rights in British occupied N Ireland and later to S.AFrika were British rule left a functioning apartheid regime.to the Boar republic..I make no apologies for trying even though I am elderly to destroy the British establishment and their supporters..!
Stephanie – You’re absolutely right. It’s not about ‘the English’ (a self-righteous xenophobia :-)). It’s about class, power and wealth.
The Scots have similarly often transferred responsibility for the Clearances to ‘the English’ rather than pin the blame on their own clan chiefs filling their boots, and doing essentially the same as the English aristocracy did to the ordinary Joe in England with the process of enclosure.
RH Are the Welsh up next for your pearls of wisdom,or is it just the Irish and scots….probably you should criticise the working classes they’re always in your sights as well….regards comrades
Joseph, I have more in common with a working man in any country on Earth than I have with a rich man next door, however pleasantly we might greet each other, and so do you.
I’d suggest that’s true of everyone here.
If all the proddies were rich and all the papists were poor then sectarianism would make at least some sense.
If you’re going to discriminate, do it right.
Rich catholics are just as much your enemy as rich proddies.
Bringing children up to be good little sectarians is NI’s real problem – and if you deny that that’s how it passes down the generations I’m going to seriously take the piss.
David the argument was about colonialism….not religion and working classes are not driven by religion,its you that have introduced that into the argument. Not me. Ireland has moved on from a religion dominated society.and the Irish model of a modern European democracy does not rest easy with the establishment British veiw of king and country.,Ireland is once again being shafted and used by the establishment as a political pawn and to Quote TCLiverpool stiring up an hornets nest. regards comrade
RH I noticed you dropped the word British and substituted English..just how narrow are your Horizons?