Hard-remainers complain re show of hands conference vote – but video evidence is clear

Delegates supporting Corbyn position decisively greater than those against

Desperate centrist and soft-left hard-remainers have begun to attack general secretary Jennie Formby and session chair Wendy Nichols over the result of today’s conference vote, in which delegates voted to support Jeremy Corbyn’s Brexit position by decisively defeating ‘Composite 13’, a motion that would have bound Labour to the car-crash of campaigning for remain even against its own deal with the EU.

Remainers claim that the vote by show of hands was too close to be certain of the result and that a ‘card vote’ should therefore have been taken.

But the video evidence of the vote, as captured by the BBC, is unequivocal – and is captured in the looped gif image below, so viewers can easily see it as many times as they wish and judge for themselves:

The video on the vote concerning the NEC statement confirming Corbyn’s position, which won by the same kind of proportion – since it spoke on the same topic – is even clearer:

Formby’s intervention on Composite 13 was purely to point out to Nichols that she had called the vote as ‘carried’ when she had meant to say ‘defeated’.

And Nichols gave short shrift to a remainer delegate who had implied that she was not calling the result fairly – pointing out that Unison had voted against the motion and she is a former Unison president and still represents the same union:

Those attempting to contest the unequivocally clear outcome don’t have a leg to stand on.

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34 responses to “Hard-remainers complain re show of hands conference vote – but video evidence is clear

  1. The fact remains – We wouldn’t be discussing this if there had been a card vote.

    • Take your defeat like a man, Steve. There is no point you crying like a baby about it.

      Conference voted against the remain motion. Labour is not a remain party. If you don’t like that go and join Jo Swinson’s Liberal Democrats party. They are remain extremists like you, you will fit right in.

    • The Remainer anti Corbyn forces in our Party are understandably aggrieved that their blatant attempted Coup Mark six or seven, which is what their ‘let’s adopt a hard Remain policy’ was, failed . And failed quite evidently without the need for the Big Trades Union bloc vote battalions to be deployed in a card vote to support the (unworkable) Corbyn/NEC line. .

      This failed Conference ‘get Corbyn’ plot has had the advantage that it smoked out into the open some key creatures of the Labour Right – who have masqueraded as in some way ‘Left Wing’ – like Clive Lewis and Emily Thornberry. Thornberry in particular (AKA Lady Nugee) is now increasingly the chosen , fake Leftish, candidate to replace Jeremy on behalf of the Mandelson, Blair, Right. They can be sure Emily hasn’t got a socialist principle in her body. And better for the Trade Union bureaucracy leadership traitors of USDAW and UNISON in particular to have demonstrated yet again that , with honourable exceptions like the RMT and UNITE, the trades union bureaucracy will NEVER support a Party Leader or a socialist government against the maintenance of the status quo.

      Nevertheless , when the tactical manoeuvring smoke clears, the Right will grasp that in getting Labour to adopt the electorally suicidal Second Referendum policy, with its daft surrounding supposed ‘neutrality on Brexit until after a Labour victory and a post Election Special Conference decides our Leave or Remain policy, it has so fucked up our electoral chances that election defeat, and the end of ‘Corbynism’ is ensured. Then the Right think they will ‘get their Party back’ for the continuation of all their old careerist, corrupt, Parliamentary game. But in fact the Part that will be left will be a smoking, electorally dead, hulk.

  2. I couldn’t judge from the TV coverage because of incomplete camera coverage/viewpoint.
    I was very surprised such a contentious issue wasn’t put to a card vote and think failing to remove all doubt about the result of something so crucial was a poor decision by the chair.

    • You are right it is impossible to tell plus there is the fact that the union delegates have block votes so with the supporters of 13 including several unions including the massive membership of Unison the number of hands visible bears little relationship to the number of votes cast.

      It is amazing in this day and age that the party doesn’t rent an electronic voting system for conferences. Every vote would be quick and accurate. Is the party hanging onto ‘show of hands’ voting because of some misplaced nostalgia.

      • I agree and wish , to put and end to the now never ending questioning of the result , that there had been indeed a card vote , which would still probably have shown a small majority against the motion . But at least it would shut up the row and allow the Conf to progress. Labour really does now need a foolproof E Voting system to stop this ambiguity.
        I see Starmer in the Indy headlines is stating Labour will campaign for remain regardless of the vote !

    • and to add to it, with a card vote on this issue you would have had a paper trail and exact figures. There would be no doubt. Bad decision taken – not doing a card vote on that issue.

    • ” surprised such a contentious issue wasn’t put to a card vote”

      That’s precisely the problem.

      The vote was a shit-show, incompetently chaired in a way where the chair was made to look like a sock puppet – which incompetence is lethal in a situation like this.

      I’m not sure what the result would have been otherwise – and I’ve backed Corbyn’s essential line that the referendum should be the focus at this point – even if going into an election without clarity is a more dubious proposition.

      But it’s no good rattling on about ‘unity’ and then letting a vote like this go on a show of hands. A competent chair would have thought quickly and immediately gone for a card vote.The one thing you know if you’ve done any chairing of contentious stuff, is that a push against a recorded vote is usually a mark of fear of losing – or dodgy-dealing – so it was folly to think that this would put the issue to bed. Simply – we needn’t have been here this morning.

      The organisational incompetence was again shown in trying to move against Watson in the way that happened. It wasn’t the time, and the mechanism was rubbish after 5s of thought.

      I had a vision after all that of of someone handing out leaflets outside the conference hall saying ‘Vote LibDem’ – it would have had less negative impact. And on this occasion, you can’t simply blame the media.

      You can see why Fisher wants to spend more time with his family.

      Obviously, going into an election backing ‘Leave’ or some ‘honouring the referendum’ nonsense is the same as committing electoral suicide or voting to keep the Tories in power.

      So what is left? Well – first, the Wilson strategy of leaving individual campaign decisions to individual PLP members. There’s no other way.

      But beyond that, it’s a question of simply pushing just the ‘Choice’ option of a referendum, and hoping that it’s not interpreted as an inconsistent fudge that gifts the Tories victory with the infantilised gullible vote that will fall for the ‘strong man’ stuff.

      … or explicitly backing ‘Remain’, hoping that it will move sufficient votes back from the LDs and Greens, whilst keeping options open with a referendum. What those voters won’t swallow in any number, however, is any pretense that any Brexit option is better than continued membership of the EU.

      At some point soon a choice will have to be made, and it might be an idea to hand that choice to individual members – or at least clarify the will of the Party at large.

  3. Does not the passing of 14 – itself confirm the rejection of 13 though?

    • David of course it does but both sides of the brexit debate have other irons in the fire and the leadership of the Labour party and personal ambitions was a motivator for opportunism.I have noted those that wished to plunge the knife in the back of Jeremy Corbyn and purge socialism from the Labour party whilst claiming loyalty to the membership and Corbyn.Watson’s at least a visible enemy.And I still need to know the name of the chairperson who rescued Watson at the NEC.IT must be a solid support otherwise Watson would have leaked it

      • Joseph OKEEFE ‘And I still need to know the name of the chairperson who rescued Watson at the NEC’. It’s here from watson’s own mouth (listen 1.30 onwards) – Wendy Nicols?
        https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-49783841/labour-conference-tom-watson-says-there-s-been-a-bad-start
        Is this the same Wendy Nicols (former president of Unison) who (accidently?) got confused over the result of that vote on C13 while chairing the session at conference yesterday?

      • Thankyou rob and carlene I am grateful for the info on wendy nicols.you might have guessed im useless on the internet and my detective skills not much better .But it is nice to put a name to someone who is the chairperson and also appears to get flustered and makes mistakes…re yesterday at conference and what else?

  4. David do give him his title SIR keir Starmer.He had to do triple somersaults to get that gong.and I Insert….And yes I did it my way…But I prefare the Sinatra version!

  5. Meanwhile on Radio 4 this morning their “political correspondent ” ,without a hint of irony,reported Watson will call in his speech today for unity and an end to the infighting.However when he later reported that Watson will demand we focus our attacks on the enemy the reporter did add that by this he meant Johnson. Difficult to know what to do for the best today,if we walk out the MSM will murder us,not attending a possible but I tend to favour listening to his diatribe in stony silence. Any suggestions?

    • Jim the camaras need to record that the membership reject him and those supporters of his wrecking tactics.Boos and thumbs down for the Imposter and a walk out.Let there be no doubt no spin total humiliation for the treacherous poison of Watson

      • “the camaras need to record that the membership reject him and those supporters of his wrecking tactics.Boos and thumbs down for the Imposter and a walk out.”

        You really think that feeding the media like that would be a good idea?

        I think you might be surprised at the ‘show of hands’ too! Remember – Watson has just beaten off a trigger vote.

    • Very tough , how to make the displeasure of membership obvious without giving even more ammo to the bastards in the MSM.
      I have no doubt he well knows that he is despised by a lot of the membership for his actions , so one wonders if there is any point in ramming it home at Conf.
      We are unable to remove him … yet .. which would be the far better result , so perhaps sitting in silence with minimal applause ( there will be his supporters in the audience to do this anyway ) is the best course. Thus not giving the juicy titbits to the bastards in the MSM to rake us over with.
      Maybe at the end a rousing Red flag rendition and a Corbyn Chant .

  6. BBC newsmonkey interviewing Rebecca Long Bailey about how Starmer’s negotiating position as a remainer would be a weak, ridiculously non-credible “I think we should remain but can you offer us some kind of a deal?”
    I’m paraphrasing of course.
    Why do such people constantly speak as if it were off the record and as if the EU negotiators are imbeciles who don’t get that the Tory No Deal threat is completely ridiculous?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_JOGmXpe5I
    Obviously one wouldn’t choose to start from here but after all the Tory nonsense and threats the only possible way to get to where neither the UK or the EU lose more than necessary is to deal honestly with each other ffs.

    • David shes jockeying for leadership.She is one of those who believe their own publicity!

    • Sorry folks, I expressed myself badly – it was the newsmonkey claiming the position was ludicrous, not Ms. Long Bailey.

  7. And the fudge by the establishment their Lordships…..That should set the cat amongst the pigeons …wait for it comrades!

  8. Anyone on here got an email from the Labour team,with a picture of double barrel Bailey(long Bailey)waving .Thats really going to pee off that other leadership grabber Sir knighty keir….How did she manage such a blatent plug?

  9. Despite all the excitement the difference between Composite 13 and Composite 14 involves dancing on the head of a pin. Either Labour will formally back Remain OR Labour figures will en masse back Remain exercising their parliamentary “freedom of conscience”.

    The important thing is that Labour has jettisoned its manifesto policy of respecting the referendum result, is going for a second referendum and will offer the public a stitch-up choice between BRINO and Remain in that referendum. Neoliberalism or neoliberalism.

    At the same time the Labour government will be having to defend multiple court actions from companies in the private education and private medicine sectors who will be using their EU free movement rights to oppose any move towards public monopoly in the NHS and British education. These firms merely need to shift their headquarters to another Member State then they may claim protection under freedom of establishment. That gives them the right to a court action on whether the government has acted “proportionately” in restricting (indeed eliminating) their “fundamental right”.

    Expect interim injunctions whilst the cases wend their way up the court hierarchy.

    It does not make much sense for the Labour Party to hug the EU close whilst at the same time adopting new policies which contravene EU law.

    • Quick! This is an emergency!
      JC’s obviously unaware of this – phone him, don’t write or email – he needs to learn of your amazing discovery NOW before it’s too late!

  10. Just a reminder that there is a charity fringe event on today in the Old Courtroom Brighton at 1pm to support Youth Against Settlements in Hebron Palestine. The main speakers are Miko Peled (the General’s son), Azzam Tamimi and Tom Suarez. A film by Karl Sabbagh will also be shown. Entrance is free but donations would be appreciated.

  11. Unfortunately the Supreme Court hasn’t issued a warrant for BloJo’s arrest.
    I was really looking forward to seeing him dragged off in handcuffs.
    Or begging Trunt for asylum if he’s in the US selling the NHS.
    Where is the fucker anyway?

    • “Where is the fucker anyway?”

      Usual place – up his own.

      Nice one, Supreme Court – ‘bringing back sovereignty’. And unanimous.

  12. Leaders of opposition parties talking to the Speaker to discuss next moves.
    Be quick, Mr. Bercow.
    PMQ’s tomorrow could be funnier than 8/10 Cats.

  13. Will their lordships be able to issue a contempt of court if Johnson doesn’t comply.Can the speaker issue a callback of parliament and will jo swansong have to rush back from the holiday in France.Maybe we will see some life in parliament after all Historic times and hope democracy will come from this?

  14. Remainiacs lost 3 votes on a show of hands, their agenda is clear, stop JC and Labour government
    Today we should walk out in silence, save the Oh Jeremy Corbyn, if you do it too often it’s not special anymore

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