Spread of polls varies wildly – but media major on only one
The range of the latest polls from each of the main polling companies varies wildly – showing Labour six points ahead of any other party, six points behind the Tories, or most points between:
• Labour lead by 2% (Survation)
• Labour lead by 6% (Opinium)
• Labour lead by 4% (ComRes)
• Labour lead by 6% (Delta)
• Labour lead by 1% (BMG)
• Tories lead by 2% (Ipsos)
• Tories lead by 6% (YouGov)
Of course, only one poll has received significant mention from either the mainstream media – no prizes for guessing which, even though it is by a company with a well-known track record of understating the Labour vote.
In fact, three times as many polls show Labour leading – including two with a six percent lead – including Survation, by far the most accurate in 2017 – versus the single outlier showing the Tories ahead by the same amount. Again, no prizes for guessing which receives the media attention.
And of course, the fact that polls showed Labour a country mile behind shortly before Corbyn’s party destroyed Theresa May’s parliamentary majority and came within a whisker of government is conspicuous by its absence from ‘mainstream’ analysis and commentary. Instead, it seems to have disappeared into some dusty, rarely-glimpsed alcove of the media groupthink-consciousness.
No surprise there, either.
Labour’s supporters, on the other hand, know better – and the few left commentators who are panicking because of a narrative by hostile voices should know better, too.
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The MSM is reporting that Jeremy Corbyn is the most unpopular leader of all the party leaders and say at the same time that he is within inches of Downing St and that only Boris Johnson can “save” us from a Corbyn government .Is it really a surprise then that they should highlight the polls which show a Tory lead – this is exactly what Fiona Bruce did on Question Time in February (and got away with) and ignore the polls which show us in the lead.
I don’t think the polls and the smears matter much anyway. I think ordinary decent voters are disgusted by the effect austerity is having on the most vulnerable in society and it is that basic decency along with an anti austerity manifesto which will carry us to victory and a Corbyn led socialist government at the next election.
Cathy Newman on Channel 4 News last night asked if Jeremy Corbyn should ‘consider his position’.
Jesse Philips responded in the affirmative.
The same question was not asked about Tom Watson though.
They live in their own wish-fulfilling bubble, don’t they?
I think Jess Phillips should consider hers.
People who previously attacked Corbyn attack Corbyn. Dog bites man.
I should add that my comment applies to all parties and MPs, not just Labour.
Why do we let Jess Phillip’s onto the media, why do we not have a list of approved spokespeople,
Why has she not been brought in for a chat,
Why has Cathy Newman not asked her if she should consider her position
Is she the shittest girlfriend a party has ever had, her and Wes could be the the shittest couple in the history of politics
Where do we breed these fuckers, time to neuter mum (Pantomime Dame) and dad (TWatson)
“Why do we let Jess Phillip’s (sic) onto the media, why do we not have a list of approved spokespeople”
Is that not a little sinister? Who’s “we”?
My MP (not Ms Phillips) represents me and her other 70k constituents, and I don’t want a shadowy “we” deciding on whether, or on what subjects, she can speak to the media in the course of representing us.
reply to Graham Hindson
When an individual puts themselves forward as PPC and is selected to stand as a Labour candidate, their election campaign is funded by the party, they avail of the Labour name and Labour members wear out their shoes tramping the streets canvassing for them. That is the “we” referred to by Doug and I see absolutely nothing sinister about it.
Neither do I think it is in anyway unreasonable to expect an MP that the party both centrally and locally has invested so much time and money in to show loyalty to the party, respect for the members and the respect for the leader elected by 300,000 of us.
Jess Phillips does none of these things. She has consistently undermined the leader and his team She has said she would stab Jeremy Corbyn in the front and has publicly threatened to resign from the party at least 3 times because of her dissatisfaction with him. She has boasted about effing and blinding at Diane Abbott, the most abused woman in parliament ( no sisterly solidarity for Diane from Jess) and failed to attend a meeting of the Women’s PLP which she was supposed to chair in order to rub shoulders with the dregs of society at a party organised by Rupert Murdock.
Jess Phillips does not speak for Labour and is only interested in herself. People are beginning to catch on to her and I sincerely hope the good people in Yardley CLP will “consider her position” come the next General Election.
Well said, Smatboy!
Smartboy, sorry!
@Smartboy – What I find slightly sinister is that an unelected body – the Labour membership – should be able to dictate to my elected representative whether or not she can appear on the media to represent the interests of her constituents in the matter of, say, local hospital services, because once you have the “approved” list as suggested by Doug all the others are, by definition, unapproved.
Well said Smartboy remember Hindson is a Tory voter so we bear in mind that fact in any of his responses.
Hindsons last trolling comment ( 07/07/2019 at 9:48 am · ) is laughably without any self awareness or inkling of irony and hypocrisy re what is “sinister” , tell you what I find sinister Tory boy Hindson and thats an unelected Tory party membership nd a few very very rich lobbyists , electing the next PRIME MINSTER of our whole country not some back bench opposition MP and WTF do you care anyway you’re a Tory Voter so fuck off with your interferences .
Go take a LOOOONG walk off a short pier and take your own so called Party the one that killed 120K innocent citizens , increased homeless, destroyed our NHS and schools which is the very point Phillips was making , you utter fuckwit .
Reply to Graham Hindson
You don’t agree with Doug’s proposal – thats fine – but the use of the word “sinister” in inappropriate, a bit over the top in fact.
If MPs want to be able to say and do exactly what they want and be answerable only to their constituents then they should stand as Independents. Most won’t do this because they know the vast majority of voters vote for the party not the candidate.
The problem I and many others have is that MPs llke Jess Phillips use the party’s financial and other resources to get into parliament and then once elected publicly trash the party leadership and members at every opportunity.
People like me whose subs funded their campaigns have every right to have high expectations of them. They can act as Independents and ignore us and their CLPs if they choose. However if they do so they cannot reasonably expect to be reselected by the CLP come the next general election.
None of the above is in anyway “sinister”. It’s called democracy.
Reply to Rob
Thanks for the info Rob.
A Tory posting on this site indicates the level of desperation the Tories are experiencing.
@Smartboy – This addendum to my comment went in the wrong place, but is self explanatory.
Graham Hindson 07/07/2019 at 9:50 am · ·
I should add that my comment applies to all parties and MPs, not just Labour.
If a party membership unaccountable to the electorate is able to decide on which of their MPs may or may not appear on the media it would lead to the “wrong” people being less able to effectively speak for their constituents than the “right” people on matters of importance to their electorate- “right” and “wrong” being decided by the unelected.
Thus the unelected would be influencing how the general public in certain constituencies can be represented by their elected MPs.
I stand by “slightly sinister”.
@ Graham Hindson
In addition to the points made by others – anyone applying for selection as a PPC will certainly have been questioned on their history and on their socialist beliefs.
When their actions, statements and voting history later belie their claimed socialism they can justifiably be accused of treachery.
Those MPs elected in Blairite times might well feel aggrieved at being criticised for beliefs that were mainstream Labour back then – but we’re now in a time of exponentially-accelerating wealth inequality and so-called “centrists” have no answers, no clue and no apparent desire to reverse that trend.
One cannot claim to represent the many from the “centre” when the only possible moral or economic argument for capitalism – so-called “trickle-down” – has been so comprehensively discredited by austerity for the many while the wealth of the 1% grows exponentially.
So you and the Blairites can either renounce your fake interpretation of centrism and join the many without reservation – or, in one possible future, suffer the same fate as your masters.
The real centre is where I stand – opposing the execution of any war-mongering oligarchs who willingly renounce their power and privilege to live as simply and greenly as the rest of us.
That just leaves the Red Dwarf crew for the steamroller.
Imagine despoiling that legacy for the fucking AA… or series 10 come to that 🙁
@David McNiven – The suggestion I’m responding to is that a party (any party) membership should have the ability to prevent certain MPs speaking to the media, and doesn’t have anything to do with “centrists” or “Blairites” (I’m a Conservative voter)
Do you actually agree with that proposal which might mean that my MP (not Ms Phillips), might not be able to use the media to campaign against a hospital closure, or in favour of a bypass just because she might be out of favour with her party’s membership?
I find it undemocratic, indeed slightly sinister.
@ Graham Hindson 5:19 pm
All parties nominate spokespeople to speak on specific subjects and those speaking beyond their brief, misquoting party policy or otherwise harming the party’s standing are open to sanction.
Doug’s “we” clearly referred to ‘the Labour Party’ – you chose to narrow that to suit the current MSM trope of ‘bullying’.
What IS the Tory policy designed to prevent the 1% owning 100% of everything instead of ‘only’ 50%?
More tax cuts for the rich, more tax rises and austerity for the poor?
Because the less you tax the rich the greater the overall tax revenue?
Or perhaps you, like Reesly-Smugg, positively yearn for a society of rich, feudal rentiers and forelock-touching serfs – in a post-democratic society where your masters no longer have to spend vast fortunes paying the MSM to fix elections for you useless fucking Tories?
Or are you a Tory voter because you think your boss will be more likely to promote you?
Because Tories have Savile Row suits and plummy accents?
Because they went to Eton like Boris or Charterhouse like ‘unt so must be cleverer than the rest of us?
Because you expect to win the Lottery/invent an app/marry money/already earn over 80k?
Because you believe that “Labour overspending” caused a worldwide financial crash that began in the fucking US?
Because the S*n told you to?
Come on – WHAT?
Do you even know?
The only real polls that matter are elections.
The recent Peterborough by-election ‘poll’ saw Labour see off Farage in a strongly Leave constituency with an increased majority on a lower turn out.
This was a huge disappointment to Farage who, you will recall, didn’t hang around for media interviews and a milkshaking but quietly crept out the back door with his tail between his legs .
The election was a strong vindication for Corbyn’s unity approach to the EU.
The figure you’ve left out is that Labour’s share of the vote fell from 48% TO 31%. 31% isn’t, I think, enough to achieve a majority government.
Peterborough was further proof if it was needed that only Labour can defeat Farage and Brexit/UKIP
WE the party, members and supporters won against the odds, 31% in a four horse race at 7/1 against, bodes well for GE,
Hate to shit in your custard Graham but that is enough for a landslide under FPTP
@Doug – An excellent argument for PR if a party which has 69% of the votes against it can gain a landslide Parliamentary victory!
@ Graham Hindson.
FUCK PR and its watered-down homeopathic quackery – it’s a fake cure-all for an imaginary problem.
There is only right and left and only the left has a hope of saving the many and the planet.
Everything else can’t decide if it’s Mavis Riley or Mavis Wilton.
Grow the fuck up.
The media were particularly vile during that election. They must believe that the public will be easy meat come the GE. Recent events have proved them and their handmaiden pollsters to be wrong. Regards
A very amusing article. Some of those polls were weeks ago, but I notice you’ve not dated them. I agree YouGov often understates Labours true position; let’s hope it’s an outlier. What you didn’t mention, though, was how strong the Lib Dems are doing (and, they, like the Tories, are currently electing a new leader). Let’s hope there’s no bounce. What I would like on this site i
that there is objective journalism but it’s sadly lacking.
You sound like the type of dickhead people go out of their way to avoid.
Being objective makes me a dickhead!?; that raised a smile.
Not objective.
Obnoxious.
But in all the recent polls, it is only YouGov that has shown Labour on below 24%; they have shown Labour 5-10% lower; and they are responsible for no fewer than 5 of the last 8 polls.
They are – quite deliberately I have no doubt – flooding the market with anti-Labour polling.
Given that YouGov have been shown in the past to screen out people who say they support JC it’s perfectly likely they’re still doing it. We did our own study in a group a couple of years back and when people changed their preferences on YouGov they started getting invitations to political polls.
Well Joe as a non Labour Party member you won’t be getting any say in the election of any leader and it’s wishful thinking and whistling in the wind IMO to think that suddenly 400K membership is going to not vote AGAIN for Corbyn .
Re the objectivity with this blog then feel free to start your own and have a go , lets see how you do for readership , btw do you actually contribute to Steve’s efforts monetary wise I wonder before continuously criticising him as you have been.
The old saying , don;t like it lump it or leave but I for one am grateful fo r the efforts that one bloke puts in to helping balance the utter shite we have thrust down our throats everyday by the MSM et al , it ain’t perfect but it’s bloody better than nowt .
Joe
Are you seriously saying in the next GE cheap and nasties will finish 6 points in front of Labour
A fool and his money
Can I encourage supporters to visit Paddy Power and have a small bet on JC to be next PM at 66/1
The gamble is Posh Prat Johnson will not command a majority and there will be a GE called
Joe K has had worse bets he gambled on a 100 seat majority in 2017 GE for Minnie Maggie May, damn them polls
I made a few bob at the last election,Brexit and a few others. Take the bet. Good luck.
I find it difficult to believe that the troll Joe ballsszczak is still trying to get money for the pathetic propoganda he peddles..Whatever he gets its top much!
Ps joe its too,too,much for that standard of trolling
If anyone wanted an indication of how meaningless polling is right now, since late May, the lead has been held, variously, by Labour, the Tories, the Lib Dems and the Brexit Party.
The range for Labour is 18-33%.
The range for the Tories is 17-26%.
The range for the Lib Dems is 13-24%.
The range for the Brexit party is 12-26%.
That is over a six week period.
It means that a very minor difference in methodology or the error within the poll can shift a party from first to fourth and back again.
In this evironment, only a complete fool would make changes aimed at chasing a transient poll rating.
And that complete fool is Twatson and his PLP MPs !
No panicking, is the most important to win for the Corbyn Government. Many establishments want to stir and print and broadcast fake news as much as possible whoever could participate with their plots. In Japanese proverb for the three battle principle, Mountain-Shogun, Fire-Seniour Soldiers and Woods-Junior Soldiers, whatever happens Shogun like mountain never moves, S. Soldiers fight like fire. Juniors soldiers move as quiet as woods to opponent territory.
Did you mean, don’t worry JC will win? Regards.
Any fool can spot the confluence of a right wing press trying to lay the ground for a new election as Boris won’t have the numbers to deliver Brexit by delegitimising a Corbyn led Labour and the poorly hidden agenda of the New Labour grandees trying to dislodge Corbyn before the last of their fingers is unpicked from the party machinery.
It’s July, time for another summer of smears and tedium that just stiffens the resolve to only vote Labour if it’s left led.
In a referendum on Europe I would vote remain. In a General Election I’d vote for a Corbyn led Labour. If Corbyn is pushed out then we are back to the days of no real difference between the main parties and lazy MPs doing nothing to improve lives. We’ve had more than enough of that, thanks.
Rob, I’ve renewed my membership.
Yehhh great what do you want,,, a bloody medal , now get behind the team support Corbyn stop with the whining and build support for a left wing DS govt lead by Corbyn. Can’t do that ,, then you’re no better than a non member or a Twatson centrist.
The level of propaganda this country’s MSM dishes out is literally akin to Stalinist Russia or Goebbles’s Berlin. It is disgusting.
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JC has to be the most smeared politician in British history. People are cottoning on to that.
The MSM think the British public are too brainwashed to take a dim view of that. People are cottoning on to that, too.
Ed Miliband of all people quoted David Bowie in the Graun yesterday: “Tomorrow belongs to those who can hear it coming”.
Corbyn and his supporters can. The PLP/MSM are frantically jamming that hearing horn in their ear to ever-decreasing effect.
And it’s a delight to behold.
Eyes on the prize and stand firm, people!
“The level of propaganda this country’s MSM dishes out is literally akin to Stalinist Russia or Goebbles’s Berlin. It is disgusting. ”
It is a totalitarian regime.
Some (on the right) say the current push is communist, I say it (Corporatism as merger of private business/banks and state) is more akin to fascism but whatever term you see as a root, both labels have used totalitarian measures to increasingly repressive degrees to maintain hegemony and silence dissent and truth. Those that accrue great wealth wish to keep it and their collective primary purpose is to delegitimize all talk of change to other moral and equitable systems, even ameliorative measures these days and brutally silence dissent.
With great wealth comes the power that can buy political systems and use the state against the public (at home and abroad) and also bail out and provide massive tax breaks and subsidies to private business and underwrite private banking.
One only has to look at France and see state structures being used to viciously repress public dissent of policies that benefit an Oligarchic elite and those serving the Rentier gangster system we live under.
A related important element is the endemic corruption of politics in western so called democracies, Craig Murray’s blog gives and insight into the cross party nature of political corruption serving individuals and Oligarchy.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/07/bought-politicians/
Clive Lewis makes some good points in The Canary
MSM and Toilet papers would have to acknowledge smears and if they were are party members, we would have to take action against them
Say it again media are as thick as pig shit they think we cannot work out JC is the most useless but woe betide we have a GE,
Very simples, because they have done their own polling and it tells them in no uncertain terms, JC and Labour will win
Dear skwawkbox: you can’t say a “6 percent lead”. You must say “a six percentage points lead”. The difference is subtle, but very important. I’m a maths teacher by the way, so apologies for being pedantic.
All the mainstream media does that mistake and in fact, only Evolve Politics did compare survey results using the correct terminology.
An awful lot of MSM pundits say “anti-Simetic” too, ironically illustrating just how shallow and opportunistic their interest in the topic really is.
In another superb article, Jonathan Cook suggests that the US government’s campaign against Corbyn may have already started:
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/07/04/plot-keep-jeremy-corbyn-out-power
Another excellent article from Mr. Cook – thanks for the link, Tony.
I always suspected Brand’s incisive, radical commentaries and his merciless sarcasm in dissecting the establishment narrative might have turned more young minds toward the Left than the Labour Party at the time – and certainly more than he’s ever been given credit for.
Poor article, Skwawkie. The constant danger for us on the Left is to fall into the trap of engineering very selective “facts” to reassure ourselves that everything is still OK. I’m afraid this latest posting from Skwawkbox is real “whistling in the dark to keep our spirits up” stuff. Have a look at Wikipedia’s summation of all polling company polling for this year to see how far our Labour electoral support is collapsing – in the face of deliberate “mixed messaging” confusion by the Labour Remainer Right (and their Left collaborators like Paul Mason – and even now, Diane Abbott and John McDonnell) on Brexit , the constant MSM smears, and the suppression of any discussion of our broad Labour policy offer across the MSM. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election#2019
Just two illustrative examples , sadly putting Skwawkbox’s irrelevant narrow focus purely on the Tory versus Labour polling results in context. Let’s use the Survation data instead of the nowadays decidedly dodgy pro Tory You Gov results. On 30th January Survation had the Tories at 38%. Labour at 39%, and the Lib Dems at a mere 9%. Fast forward to the 19/20 June Survation polling result – startlingly different – with the Tories at 24%, Labour at 26%, the Lib Dems at 18%, and the totally brand new Brexit Party at a gobsmacking 20% !
Now, OK, there has been a narrow focus on Brexit since the EU Elections, and during the all-MSM channel Tory Leadership contest, to explain a lot of short term exaggerated results . And the “Brexit Party” results could be a short-term , quickly dissipating mirage – for a “party” with no policies but Leave. It is true that in 2017 labour pulled back almost a 20 point lag behind the Tories once our excellent 2017 Manifesto offer got legally obliged airtime. But , in the snap General Election in the Autumn now being heavily trailed by sections of the Tory press (like the Times today, now having done a “double ferret” and backed Boris Johnson as Tory Leader) , the entire MSM will make sure that the focus is ENTIRELY on Brexit – championed by that utter con man, Boris Johnson – plus his bogus promises to put 20,000 more police on the streets, end austerity, re-fund the NHS, and put an end to immigration from the EU , and all done WITH extra tax cuts !
The Brexit Party’s current massive support amongst traditional Tory voters may well fade away whilst the totally uncritical “Boris superman” all mass media halo effect projects his bogus claims as believable – just long enough for the Brexit Party to hoover up dozens (up to 50) of traditional Labour heartland seats in the North, Midlands, and Wales. Whilst Labour may well by then have become a firmly pro PV and Remain ( and a continuance of “freedom of movement” , ie,unlimited labour supply) Party, and will only be competing with the Lib Dems for the Remain vote – our radical 2017 Manifesto-style wider offer , being simply lost in the total media focus on Brexit. Let’s not kid ourselves , if the Brexit Party cons its way into the Commons with up to 25 to 50 seats pinched from a massive protest vote by ex Labour Leave supporters in our heartlands, that bloc of Commons votes will be given to the Tories in any key confidence votes or pushing forward the continuing neoliberal agenda.
This Skwawkbox article totally fails to examine the dire situation the sabotage of our 2017 Manifesto commitment to “respect the outcome of the EU Referendum” , by an unholy alliance of the Labour Right and the middle class Momentumite Left Liberals who think of themselves as “Corbynista socialists”, has led our Party’s electoral prospects into. Deluded optimism benefits only the Mandelson/Blair/Guardianista puppeteers who have pumped endless cash and resources into hammering the Brexit policy wedge into our naive Left ranks . They don’t care whether this results in Labour simply losing the next , previously so-winnable General Election – to then ditch Jeremy and return the Party to the control of the Right Wing careerists – or, more likely, destroys the Labour Party, PASOK and SPD, and French Socialist Party – style , as a mass electoral Party forever. As long as a Left Wing government is avoided to end their , and their Big Business paymasters, endless corruption.
The graph in that link is worth a thousand words.
I would agree that it’s not a matter of whether Lab or Cons are two or three points ahead of each other, but whether the the Lib Dem and Brexit numbers would hold up in a real election, and, if not, to which of what I’ll call the main parties their share would transfer and to what extent.
One might as well consult a crystal ball.
The most significant fact is that the polls are all over the place. Over the past six weeks, Labour have been at both 18% and 33%. They can’t both be right. And all the other three key parties have seen similarly wild swings.
What that means is that only an utter moron would do anything in reliance on the polls. Labour needs to keep doing what it believes to be right, and then concentrate on making its arguments when it counts – when there is an election.
Ultraviolet , the most significant fact is that Hindson is a Tory Voter Troll , how do I know this , because last time he showed up here approx 12mnths or so ago he took pride in telling folks he votes Tory .
Thus IMO his opinion and comments count for didley shit , beware engaging with this turd in any meaningful way will result in hours of round the houses bullshit fuckwittery from him , his sole purpose is to wind up and sow seeds of doubt , thinks he’s subtle but is as transparent as glass
I have always admired Philosopher King JP’s analysis much of which I agree with but I would argue as a fellow socialist he perhaps constantly lets us down (and working people) by failing to add: So we need to:
So here’s my take:
* Left wing democratic socislists should back left wing democratic socialist candidates as potential MPs when trigger ballots arise.
* Labour should support a Left Wing Brexit (eat into the Brexit Party working class vote whose hearts are with Labour who have drifted into Brexit Party re frustration) and wondeful progressive middle class you perhaps need to let go of Remain, we can end for example poverty for 4m mainly working class kids or we could go for Remain and lose and thus keep and increase such Tory cruelty YOU CHOOSE!
And try to get a customs union (on non-Neo-Liberal terms) which gives companies free access to EC markets, ends the need for an Irish Backstop plus also bring back migration adjustment funds for councils (cut by Tories and Llib Dems) and try to trade unionise migrant workers (to build community solidarity & better conditions for themselves).
Labour’s job offers needed for migrants equals democratic control of labour supply (we can take workers we need from the World and not just Fortress Europe) and I argue too for the democratic control of capital supply.
Labour’s manifesto was great and related to peoples lives but politcally we need to lacerate the Tories too – the first thing the Tories and the Lib Dems did with Austerity was to give tax cuts to the rich and big business corporations TO PROTECT THEIR CLASS, so with a picture of JC perhaps with a Lord Kitchener type poster we need to get this point over simply in as few words as possible and say UNDER THE TORIES AUSTERITY WAS AND IS ONLY FOR WORKING PEOPLE – YOU!
It was me who drew from analysis and experience (helping in Tony Benn’s. campaign in Chesterfield ln 1983 – he was going direct to the people) at Momentum’s first conference (before the top down bourgeois socialists got control) recommending getting JC out direct to the people too as our best and only hope!
But I am afraid a year of slagging off Jeremy publicly by Right Wing Labour MPs before the GE perhaps caused us to fail to get over the line (I had kept my gob shut on useless Milband and his arrogant politically ignorant middle class clique who thought top down they knew it all, then bstained re benefits cuts and couldn’t even say they were pro-trade union) but he couldn’t even deal with an atack from Tory business simpletons, slipping off the stage as the lightweighf left was symboliic!
And now re 2015 its the same culprits (with a few new political lightweights) who signed the letter against CW, breaking Labour rules on not commenting on individual cases.
CW would make a great deputy PM.
With a JC Labour Govt we could live through more exciting times than perhaps than 1945 but I almost pity the Right in Labour, reverting to Procedural Stalinism; sociologicaly I wonder why are they such timid human beings? Are they poorly read and ot of frightened of being radical?
I feel confident Left Wing Democratic Socialism will win, Liberation is out of the bottle and with the love of diverse working humanity, possible victory is on the horizon, but perhaps:
“Only the stars will ride the storm!”
X
I agree with everything you have written, Bazza, except I currently cannot share your unbounded concluding optimism I’m afraid. I think we, the radical Left , are in deep trouble yet again. But in this instance I fervently hope YOU are correct, and I’m completely wrong !
Been here before and bottom line is Brexit/UKIP will not win a seat and split cheap and nasty vote, Lib Dems if their lucky might recover seats lost to Tories,
Greens will take votes off Lib Dems, Scotland will revert back to more Pandas than Tories,
Under FPTP enough for Labour landslide,
Only issue I want sorted is SNP, bring in Geordie Galloway
Rob… I would think that either the polling is being used for propoganda . or the British public have not a grain of morality Lodgic would dictate that the polls are wrong again like before And having a moral compass today in a me me society can make for difficult campaign trying to show them that a corbyn government will be for them,the public and not for the few elites.I am convinced that the the polling is flawed and some would say bent.
Between Johnson and ‘unt, whose supporters are most likely to vote twice – and does anyone seriously believe the Tories that they’ll expel anyone doing that?
Anyone care to guess how many of the ballot papers they’ve sent to their claimed “around 160,000” members will be returned as “undeliverable, addressee deceased” or “no such address”?
I have to apologise for my last post to you that I made mistake about the Japanese Samurai battle principles. There are not three but four principles.
風、林、火、山、Wind, Woods、Fire、Mountain。
風-Wind, for his troop to move as quickly as possible
林-Woods, for his toop to move as quiet as possible
火- Firht for his soldirs fight like fire
山- Shoogun (Leader) never move whatever happens good or bad and in order to show his followers his dignity and belief for the winning. The stability, not to let them panick whatever situation would be, is everything to lead his troops.
Kumiko san – are you ”The Tiger of Kai” reborn?? 🙂
”If the bird won’t sing – Kill it” Oda Nobunaga
”If the bird won’t sing – Coax it” Toytomi Hideyoshi
”If the bird won’t sing – Wait for it” Tokugawa Ieyasu
Personally, I’ve ran out of patience with Corbyn’s diffidence in refuting all sorts of claims as well as his failure to grasp the nettle on key issues, and would take the Oda approach.
It’s about time Corbyn took the gloves off. Even his close allies are beginning to suffer from bad press too; all because he’s not doing what’s required of a leader.
Shit or get off the pot, Corbyn, No time for a Micawber in politics. The country demands change and while you’re talking a decent game, it#s not being backed up by being seen to be playing one.
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Rob, I wanted to correct you. I am not a clone and never will be; if that’s for you, so be it.
Joe K , many thanks for your so called “correction” I must remember to polish up me crystal ball and hone me clairvoyant skills to read your mind and realise that you have just re joined the LP ( really I wonder ) ,,,,, and being a RW/Centrists stooge is perhaps for you but not for me.
Its a pity that having left the party in protest at it’s direction under Corbyn that now you say you have rejoined it , but it’s still under the guidance of Corbyn and his team ( thank God) SO the question is for what purpose , what’s the point, nothing has changed and nothing will , there are 300K or so of us who are by your logic Clones who seem pretty much happy with Corbyn’s leadership and decisions ( compared to that idiot Twatson and his PLP MPs ) and will no doubt vote for him again if needs be .
I think your responses so far clarify that you are not a Democratic Socialist and are happy to see the continuation of the Blair Brown centrist crap that has done so much damage to the party , so sad
Hmmm…
I’m away for a few days, and hindson’s back…And then I noticed the other three haven’t posted for a few days at least!! Even Jack T’s let an antisemitism thread go by without throwing his oar in?!?!
Anyway, I digress. Polls mean sod-all to me, but Yougov?
*chuckles*
No prizes For correctly guessing it’d be them.
Come on The Toffee, even Trolls get holidays – and if all the four or so constant Trolls choose to disappear at the same time , as has happened before, who are we to suspect that there may be multiple online identities for just one Troll involved ? Or that he/they have been summoned to the Mandelson presence for a sound tongue lashing for the crap quality of their trolling.
Rob, 300,000 clones: dread the thought, eh?
Ha ha for you comrade maybe , for the rest of the majority then no ,still you can always leave again if you dread it that much. Now as we are both LP members shall we concentrate on attacking the Tories and their policies instead of you attacking JC and the party hummm ?
I’d just like to recommend the following article by Nick Cohen, please take a couple of minutes out and read it in full.
When ‘respectable’ conservatives bow to the far right it’s always disastrous
In Britain we have the abject figures of George Osborne, Matt Hancock and Damian Green who know a no-deal Brexit is a disaster but are endorsing Boris Johnson because they want his patronage. Journalists who claim to understand Johnson say he is at heart a liberal. Assuming he has a heart, he may be, but his motives no longer matter. He played with fire to become prime minister, and must keep fanning the flames if he is to survive. Like many others, he found that the way to win was to direct hatred at the EU. He will discover that the way to avoid a reckoning with the failures of the old order will be to keep anger directed at foreigners.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/06/far-right-invited-conservatives-boris-johnson
nick cohen – almost as plausible as yougov polls.
This, for example: ”He played with fire to become prime minister, and must keep fanning the flames if he is to survive. ”
The imbecile’s not even PM (yet)
The Toffee (597) at 11:34 am
🥱
Funny, how you quote the openly anti-Corbyn nick cohen as well as put up cases in defence of tom watson, isn’t it?
Ooohhhh, I hate boris – but that Corbyn’s just as bad.
What next, steve? The pro-eu kenneth clarke, despite being a tory, has a heart of gold? It’d wouldn’t surprise anyone.
The Toffee (597) at 12:04 pm
I read from a wide variety of sources, you should try it.
Oh, ok. If you say so.
You could’ve chosen a mildly disparaging piece about boris from a selection of sources, but you chose cohen…It’s harder NOT to notice the pattern.
The Toffee (597) 07/07/2019 at 12:27 pm
I recommended that others read the article because I thought its full content offered an interesting perspective, who wrote it was of secondary consideration. Do you only read articles that have been written by people you wholeheartedly agree with?
Instead of the indulging in pathetic and childish attacks on me you could try pretending to be a grown-up for once and read the article in full before commenting on its contents.
”Instead of the indulging in pathetic and childish attacks on me…”
Making people aware of cohen and his overt bias, while noticing a pattern in your posting is ‘a pathetic childish attack’ , is it?
Come back when your balls drop, you sad, whining little victim..
🥱
Yep. All too easy.
For your type, cohen’s a c**t when he’s disparaging Corbyn or the unions or the left in general.
On europe (and boris) though, he’s your ‘erudite’ mate, and we must ALL listen to him.
Well, how about NO?
I have standards; therefore I choose not to take any notice (Or rather, ignore completely) of the utterly odious ‘bullshitter’s bullshitter’ cohen…On ANY subject. Those who do invariably tend to be the right of the party.
Essentially, it’s a choice – cohen or Corbyn. You’ll no doubt whine about why you can’t claim both which will only reinforce other’s well-held perception of your fickleness and insincerity.
And it says more about you that you continued to defend your choice of highlighting cohen’s ramblings, than it does about me for pointing these things out.
The Toffee (597) at 2:00 pm
It’s good to see that your are keeping yourself ‘pure’ by only reading those that follow your true path to ‘enlightenment’.
Indeed.
Not only do I have standards, I have scruples too.
But I only have the one face…
The Toffee (597) at 2:53 pm
Narrow minded religious bigots make similar claims. Hold onto that ‘purity’ of thought.
Now I’m a ‘narrow-minded religious bigot’ because I refuse to read cohen’s tripe.
Laughable. How long until I’m antisemitic, I wonder?
You really could not make this up, unless you’re steve h – who reckons it was remainer types what gave us the NHS & welfare state. 🤡
Do you have problems understanding basic English?
Nowhere near the problems you have with reality, squire.
Nick Cohen’s “Former lefties can make a good living in the media by attacking their ex-comrades – I’d do it myself if the price was right” was enough for me to damn the wanker to hell.
He may tell less truth than a stopped clock but the Quisling bitch is correct in one thing – that it’s the ‘respectable’ right that opens the door to the far right – not, as some here contend, the left – ‘remoaners’ or otherwise.
David McNiven 07/07/2019 at 6:01 pm
Thanks for addressing the actual content of the article.
Oh look! When I thank someone it’s ridiculed as ‘Hero worship’
Go & get yerselves a room ffs. rory stewart might’ve been right not to make any spending promises in their leadership campaign…Doesn’t make him any less of a toerag or a c**t though..
Yes. I think many Hitler biographers would agree that Hitler showed no signs of anti-Semitism in his very early days. He appears to have been on good terms with the (Jewish) doctor who unsuccessfully treated his mother.
However, things seemed to change when he went to Vienna where anti-Semitism was frequently and cynically used by some mainstream politicians.
Well – looking at the run of comments on this somewhat insubstantial bit of cheerleader stuff – Labour basically remains in the shite poll-wise.
Nothing contradicts that fact – despite a bit of diversionary rabitting about ‘trolls’ and ‘traitors’ from JPenny and ole’ Toffee.
It would be interesting to see some ideas about how to recover ground/get on the front foot rather than attempting to deny the reality of how things are, interspersed with repetitious moaning about the usual suspects – who aren’t simply going to disappear as a result of repeated incantations.
Go into GE with 2017 promise to honour the result with Labour brino, promise to hold a second referendum as soon as there is a consistent 60% plus demanding another vote
Any other outcome then it should go to a confirmatory vote
”despite a bit of diversionary rabitting about ‘trolls’ and ‘traitors’ from JPenny and ole’ Toffee.”
Mentioning a so-called ‘journalist’s’ agenda is ‘diversionary’ is it?
I think not. The bleating when pulled about it from your fellow clown is, though. It’s EXACTLY because of people like steve h giving cohen the oxygen of publicity by highlighting and spreading cohen”s ramblings to a wider audience that is skewing people’s perceptions of the party.
Read the title of the OP. ”Guess which the media focus on?”
Try a LOT harder, moron.
🙂 🙂
Just to answer your point, though, Toffee :
None of us are naive about Nick Cohen and his contradictory obsessions – but SteveH was simply pointing out an island of sense in one particular piece. And to be realistic this mention in a corner of the internet is hardly going to rate as a significant exposure of Cohen to the wider world.
The Toffee (597) at 7:29 am
Unlike you, I’m not a fan of censorship. I’ve always been very suspicious of those who take it upon themselves to dictate what others are allowed to read.
Who said you ”weren’t allowed” to read it, steve? I didn’t.
Want it from another angle? OK…Who said cohen was on a proscribed list?
I didn’t.
So WHY are you playing the victim and making shit up?
(Rhetorical question)
I think that you’re right, Doug. I can see no other way out of this unholy mess – except that the guarantee of another vote should be unconditional, given the total dog’s dinner that was the last – and has also been invalidated simply by time and events.
… but at least we’re debating the substantive issue, rather than simply banging on about the usual suspects who, as I say, will not go away by virtue of ritual incantation..These need to be taken as a given – and then let’s get on with the job of countering the malignity facing the Party. No magical programme of deselection is going to solve this millstone in the required timescale.
Nothing new in terms of suggestions – but the constant concessions to the Israel lobby need to be reversed – all it’s done is to feed the enemy.
In policy terms, I am convinced that the failure to oppose Brexit clearly and unambiguously is in large part responsible for the dismal showing in the polls – and gives the right a hammer with which to bash the Party whilst turning supporters away. It is a far more significant electoral feature than the possibility of regaining conservative votes from the Faragos.
The energy and purpose of the 2017 vote needs to be re-captured and built on. That cannot be done on the basis of weakly shadowing the policies of the ‘Britannia Unchained’ gang of Tories (see John Harris on Johnson’s supporters in The Groan – the paper still has some good journalism, despite its agenda).