Analysis comment

Video: Burgon ignites deputy contest – and a #BurgonSurge – with Liverpool speech taking on PLP plotters

Left-wing favourite takes forthright comments that have Labour left on fire to new levels as he calls on left to continue fight
Richard Burgon

Labour deputy leader candidate Richard Burgon’s recent campaign appearances have ignited a previously pedestrian contest and have shown how a combative and forthright approach can fire up Labour’s left-wing majority.

And in his appearance at Liverpool’s famous Casa on Friday night, he raised his game – and supporters’ enthusiasm – to new levels, as he took on right-wing MPs of the PLP (parliamentary Labour party). Burgon attacked their attempts to depose Jeremy Corbyn, mocked their plots and eagerness to run to the hostile media and condemned their contempt for Labour’s leave-voting heartlands.

But Burgon has also called on the left to continue the fight and ensure that the battles of the last four years are not wasted:

The social media reaction to Burgon’s speech have made the impact of his new campaign approach very clear – what many are referring to as a ‘#BurgonSurge, especially in conjunction with an equally combative appearance on this morning’s Marr programme:

SKWAWKBOX view:

Burgon’s ability to galvanise support among the left by connecting with the party’s grassroots has shown itself to be exceptional. He has blown away both the membership and other candidates, in very different ways.

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60 comments

  1. Well said Richard . However it has to be said that it was not just the right wing press who demonised Jeremy. The PLP establishment and the Tories joined hands to destroy the character of this good man and the gullible S*n readers and others believed them and now we have a government led by a “part time” PM whose ministers are backed even when they viciously attack a senior civil servant and constructively dismiss him.
    I am a Trade Union rep and know what Constructive dismissal is – for the benefit of those who do not , Constructive Dismissal occurs when due to a lack of trust the employer/employee relationship completely breaks down and the employee has no option but to resign.

    1. Burgon seems like the real deal for me. Jeremy’s exemplary values plus the upfront BOLD approach ➕➕➕ Take no prisoners. Interestingly one appeal of the ghastly Patel to people is her definite decisive approach. Sadly … indeed tragically, most Tories I’v heard and met grew up amongst them… ( from deep Deep DEEP Tory land … Jeremy –unts constituency. ) almost ALL of them have the skills that connect but almost nothing worth CoE ting, transmitting, developing. Very odd, Want to give it more thought when time allows … when I grow sooo old and can only dribble… then will try to work out how many can be pleasant and good friends yet so utterly wrong about society, justice sharing the wealth of the country & the world …

      A blessing it is though. Closed association allows close inspection and developing rebuttals and courage. Sound disagreement is not the end of the world. Effective persuasion is VITAL to transform the world. Humour, clarity decisiveness and take no prisoners. Tomorrow is another day but tomorrows are not guaranteed. Win NOW. As much as I admire Jeremy, tge approach is too laid back and intermittent. All we have, when responsible for many URGENT matters and REAL change, it us crucial to always be acutely caring towards the morale of the trooos.

      The troops are more than willing Richard!!! Give it all‼️‼️‼️ Take no prisoners!!!
      🌹🌹🌹

    2. PS I see that Richard has called out the disgraceful behaviour of the PLP during the Coup and hopes to create a Tony Benn socialist and political school. Hilary Benn certainly won’t be cutting the ribbon when the school opens.He was leader of the Coup and completely trashed his father’s legacy He is a total disgrace and it would be less embarrassing for us all if he would change his name by deed poll.

      1. Yes I agree that he is a has been but the damage he did to the poor and vulnerable by staging a vicious coup against Jeremy Corbyn which was instrumental in denying us a Labour government is still being felt.Therefore I really deeply resent that Hilary Benn is still a member of our party and an MP.
        The coup exposed the fact that Benn is arrogant and totally stupid. He arrogantly refused to accept Jeremy’s democratic mandate , thought he knew better than us and that we would accept thee likes of Owen Smith or Angela Eagle as leader on his say so. What a fool! He clearly is Benn by name but not by nature.
        I always admired Tony Benn and for his sake I was glad he was dead before the coup and was therefore spared the hurt and humiliation of seeing his truly awful son turn on Jeremy who was a good and long term friend to both of them. Disgusting does not begin to describe Hilary Benn’s behaviour and if he had had one shred of decency he would have retired from politics long ago.

  2. but as Einstein said ‘don’t try and solve the problem by using the thinking that created it’.

      1. Totally agree qwertboi and Smartboy re H Benn. Again he should have been expelled ages ago. He is an utter disgrace.

  3. I expect there’s a rule preventing a candidate for Deputy being nominated for Leader at such a late date, even if the membership demanded it – which is a shame.
    I wonder what the members would say if they were polled?

    1. If you think about it – does there really need to be a hard and fast cut off date for nominations?
      Surely a late entrant popular with the membership when the existing candidates are showing themselves to be mediocrities would be a good thing?
      All I know about Labour’s rule book is that it’s unfit for purpose – unless the purpose was to tie the party’s hands behind its back.

      1. I agree with u on that McNiv. A good dictum is: “The Sabbath was made for man”, not man for the Sabbath. Ie Rules should serve us, not the other way around. When we find rules to be wrong, we must change them. I’m definitely of the school of do what work effectively. Many rules neither work in our party nor in the country as a whole.

        A new golden rule should be: Stop worrying about what an already hostile MSM would scream. We should think, put minds together, organise, mobilise and act decisively, and SUSTAIN the action. We are on the correct side of LOGIC, correct side of equal justice for all, and on the right side of the many.

        Burgon us the only one of the candidate who has the insight that myths need to be squashed… CRUSHED. Hence the brilliant idea of his school. Erase ignorance. Erase the myth of Tory competence. They are a disaster. Think of it. ALL the terrorist acts and prison riots take place most under Tory A and B side mismanagement AND encouragement. Both here and across the pond in the US. Most recently, about SIX under Theresa May’ own short catastrophic leadership alone.

        STOCKWELL. Manchester, Westminster, London Bridge 1 and 2, Highbury Mosque…. All Tory terrors. Same with the catastrophe of crime and privatised probation services.

        We must point out these ongoing Tory disasters. We must not assume that people worked to the bone and on zero hour contracts have the cause of their slow exploitation, at the front of their minds. I’v met people working three poor paying jobs to make ends meet. We must NEVER think that one or two or even two mentions at a few rallies cuts it. The exposure of the Tory frauds must be sustained THROUGHOUT the inter election periods. And our plans must also be give similar exposure in an assertive clear way. It is no good whining about the hostile MSM. We must take them on as adults. We must set the agenda. We must not melt before pompous presenters. They prepare for their interviews pretty well. Over the last four years, I got the distinct impression that Labour MPs and spikes people rolled out of bed prepared only to wing it and expect a nice cosy accommodating chat with the same repellant interviewers whom the KNOW are hostile. We must raise our game considerably ➕➕➕ and with great urgency.
        It can be done. It must be done.
        Yet another election can come at any time.
        We must prepare now.

    2. McNiv, if polled they would give a resounding
      yes, Yes, YES 🌹 🌹 🌹

  4. ‘The right of the party would HATE a win for @RichardBurgon; they want a purity, & unity, but on their terms’
    Absolutely. What they mean is roll over, shut up and smile while we destroy working class support with Liberal policies. This doesn’t come from the traditional Right, but Momentum wannabee’s.
    These are the same ‘wannabees’ that conspire with the old Right to box themselves off with lucrative positions, against the Left. Momentum apparatchiks don’t even pretend to be Left anymore and rarely even open their mouths in clp political debates. Presumably they think it’s better to be considered fifth columnists than open their mouths and confirm it.

  5. I cast my vote today and voted for him. I don’t regret it. I voted for the leader as well, and I’m really not sure about it (and I’m keeping it to myself)

  6. Yes Richard is a star.
    There is a brilliant piece by Susan Watkins in the January/February New Left Review on ‘Britain’s Crisis Decade’ which shows the competing forces in the UK in recent years and how the establishment including Right Wing Labour MPs and the right wing media plus liberal media conspired to get Corbyn.
    RLB and Burgon are perhaps the last hope in Labour to keep the left wing democratic socialist flame alive.
    But if Neo-Liberal Trilateral Commission Starmer gets in we will have a New New Labour and there will be a purge of the Left.
    Then there may need to be a debate on a new Left Wing Democratic Socialist Party.

    1. No, new parties of the Left have been tried, tried, tired and tried again why is this idea still being raised as having prospects for advancement.

      1. Possibly because the party is now extremely polarised compared to many years ago , when there was a semblance of unity for the common good . Now imo there is not , the new breed of careerist MP on the RW PLP have a mind set of win at all costs and to hell with the unity and those who suffer as ” collateral damage “

      2. Felicity, history can’t be dismissed but it’s predictive capabilities in this age of change are not what they once were.
        One could equally well argue that the Left taking the Party back from the ‘centrists’ has been “tried, tried and tried again.”

      3. Sorry for the redundant apostrophe. I first wrote “It’s not as predictive as it once was.”
        Another cut & fupasteck up.

      4. Felicity, those who raise it r well meaning but r indicative of a prob on the “Left” ie a giving up if the fight. Too nice, the beast r fighting over the resources of over 500,000 members, but let’s be nice as usual let’s give it to them and start from scratch. I feel it comes from being disconnected from the real world with out even realising it. Quite odd, but the Tories like Blair and Starmer don’t seem to have that trait… ok, yes Chukka Ummuna, Berger and Elman did. But Umm umm pullout man could b e excused as he was blinded by his own ultra outer sheen. Can’t think of an excuse for the others … blame it on their controllers … more money, more arrogance more confidence more contacts, more everything except judgement.

        ANYWAY, I completely agree with you. I wish people will devote their energies to the party we have already. CRUSH the parasitic infestation. 🌹🌹🌹

  7. Richard Burgon has certainly grown in stature as the only genuine socialist candidate amongst the opportunist sophist dross of the other, Leadership and Deputy Leadership, candidates as the campaign has progressed. Even if his presentation style is still far too wooden and stilted – which is strange for a lawyer. Richard also did very well getting his solid socialist points across in the face of the usual, agenda-ridden, weasily sneering of the ghastly Andrew Marr on his nasty little politics show today .

    Unfortunately it still looks like the mass membership are most likely to vote as a clear first round decisive majority for that reactionary neo-Blairite, charisma-free, creature of Progress, Labour First, and the Trilateral Commission , Keir Starmer – in the laughably mistaken belief that with him as Leader and a return to the bankrupt ‘centrist politics’ of the Tory-light, Blair/Brown, years, Labour can regain power. A truly astonishing level of self deception there ! Our membership seem incapable of looking at the disaster which has befallen ALL our European ‘sister parties’ with that approach !

    So even if Richard does win as Deputy Leader he will simply be isolated from any real power in the Party by the Starmer Leadership, the Right Wing PLP majority, and a purged and recaptured for the Right, Party machine. The danger of a socialist Deputy Leader, with no power, is that he then fulfils a sporadic figleaf role, like that hapless blowhard, joke professional proletarian northener, John Prescott, did for Blair’s neoliberal regime – inspiring the members at Conferences with some socialist fiery rhetoric, then put safely back in his box, isolated from any influence on actual Party policy. Richard Burgon unfortunately just continues the delusion that the totally corrupt, now utterly middle class Left Liberal dominated, Labour Party, can ever be a vehicle for even mild Left Wing advance. I did nevertheless actually vote last week for Richard, and even that total opportunist, careerist, Long-Bailey, but without any illusions whatsoever about the future disastrous ever more rightward march of Labour.

    1. Firstly, the notion that Richard will be isolated, marginalised and ostracised like Prescott is comparing a caricature of a left wing politician and a real one. Prescott did very little to oppose Blair, Brown, Mandelson, Straw, Whittey and co. He made the odd gesture but by and large he did very little apart from throwing a punch at someone who attacked him with an egg.

      Unlike, Burgon, who has attacked the “ moderates, centrists” and Blairites, I cant recall a single significant speech that Prescott made against NL. For example, the unprovoked attack on Iraq. At least Robin Cook had some backbone.

      Furthermore, the idea that Labour Party is totally dominated by “ middle class Left Liberal..” is based on what concrete evidence? Certainly not by many of the policies of the manifesto which many working class people support eg renationalised railways, an NHS free at the point of delivery or rejuvenating the industrial base of the U.K. if you mean the PLP, I agree.

      But let’s not forget what Starmers behinds the scenes string pullers said “ I would rather the Labour Party lost the GE than win on a platform of socialism” or “ I work day and night to undermine the Labour Party”. The whole strategy was, in tandem with the demonisation of JC plus the fabricated AS witch-hunt by the malcontents and the establishment, to first lose the GE, second demoralise the membership, third let the membership dwindle in order to forward the right wing agenda with the minimal of opposition.

      Richard, along with many in the membership are fully aware of this, by being defeatist you are playing straight into the string pullers hands. To paraphrase the Strawbs I am a Labour man, Till the day I die.

      1. DEarie me, you really are living in a fantasy dreamworld if you seriously think our majority of members are not indeed middle class Left Liberals, rather than socialists, Brianbotou !

        Innumerable studies of Labour’s membership (even long before the post 2015 ‘Corbyn Surge’ brought in even more very middle class people) clearly show the majority of our membership , particularly the activists, come from a very limited social and occupational strata , of middle class jobs, with middle class family backgrounds, particularly in the public sector and education, with a disproportionate number holding degrees. No good denying this well established fact, Brianbotou.

        This membership, largely lacking any even basic socialist analysis of society, and having no vision whatsoever of a society beyond the capitalist market place, do indeed want all sorts of nice goodies, like a better funded, re-nationalised NHSD, and railway system – and that ‘rebalancing the economy towards more manufacturing’ slogan (quite impossible without major direct state-led intervention and comprehensive planning) . But then these same members also overwhelmingly wanted to stay in the entirely neoliberal EU, the Single Market Rules of which forbid most of the promises in our 2017 and 2019 Manifestos being implemented ! And these same ‘Corbynista’ members treated with the same contempt as the Labour Right, the democratic 2016 Referendum vote to Leave the EU, and Labour’s 2017 Manifesto promise to ‘respect the Referendum result’.

        So, yes, Richard Burgon is personally a different kettle of fish to the blustering poseur, John Prescott, but in a Starmer-led Labour Party he would be just as impotent in the face of a continuing overwhelming Right Wing neo-Blairite PLP majority. Declaring your unconditional ‘until death’ loyalty to the soon to be fully re-taken by the corrupt Tory-lite careerist Right, Labour Party, is the mark of a simple-minded dupe lacking the ability to carry out independent political analysis, not a socialist with the ability to see beyond pathetic unconditional party loyalty to the real interests of the broad UK working class in its many subsets.

      2. This academic study from 2017 gives a flavour of the well known overwhelmingly middle class nature of our Labour Party membership – little different to the Tories or Lib Dems. https://labourlist.org/2017/10/tim-bale-inside-labours-massive-membership-base/

        Deny it all you want – but our supposed ‘Party of Labour’ is nowadays mainly a Party of the relatively privileged professional middle classes – complete with their smug Left-Liberal, petty divisive non-class-based identity-obsessed, politics, rather than any genuine understanding of or attachment to even a mild version of anti-capitalist transformational socialism.

      3. Always thought too many underestimated Robin Cook, as they have Jeremy Corbyn.
        I don’t know if he could have beaten Blair to the leadership, but what a different country this might have become if he had.
        Sadly missed.

    2. Glad u voted for Richard and Bailey. Any suggestions re steps to improve our party. Suggest steps. we need to take. Information of Tory misdoings. If we combine our efforts AND build morale, we will win. If we break morale, that’s one more hurdle for the party. There is no instances in the history of the world where victories bloom from people shouting you can’t do it, there’s no hope, we’re all doomed, it’s so awful, everything is awful, it’s the Bilderberg group, the Trilaterals, The Zionist etc etc. There is alot of that and if that did any good, we won’t be in opposition as we are now. The Bilderberg group etc meet to plan to maintain their power and make their stooges win. We have to have the same attitude. Think of it. Really think of it. What exactly is the point of preaching negativity. If we are doomed what exactly is the point of taking time to post doom doom doom hopelessness ??? I’ really puzzled. Is that not counterproductive? Will that not cause done to give up???

      Opposing views are great, as they sharpen reasoning. I am yet to see a reason for announcing futility… and at every opportunity. Why would anyone try to survive if it is convinced it won’t ? ? ?

      1. V doubtful of DB. Used to b really keen but look who is supporting her and her failure to put full strength behind the Windrush victims, general poverty and Grenfell victims for eg. Stick to Richard Burgon and RLB, still wish contest could be restarted č Ricgard as leader and Jeremy as Dep or McCluskey but until then RICHARD BURGON 1
        and RLB 1

      2. Unite just has to make a new rule allowing Len to moonlight as Labour’s deputy, and Labour just has to make a new rule allowing a non-MP to be deputy leader.
        What’s the problem? 🙂

  8. Yes McCluskey✅✅✅ Would be a top notch candidate. Have always been impressed with his forthright solid prefs in radio interviews. Clear, assertive and nimble ie not timid, not rabbit in the headlights as if the vexatious / obvious Qs of pompous MSM supporters are a paralysing surprise.

    NB, even though Priti Patel and 99.99% of Tories have nothing to offer, they r almost never timid, even when spouting absolute nonsense. We need MPs who present our sound policies with the conviction and preparation they deserve.

    We also need members who always seem to have a foot out the door ready to run and form a new home rather than fight for the home we already have.

    The Blair creature has not fled. Most of Its anal worms have not fled. And those that have not, expose their syphilitic like pustules to attract and readmit the ones than jumped off eg Minimus Cuckus Umnius jumped off like ticks to suck of dead hosts – the Lesser Spotted Soubrians CUCKUS LIMPUS and the Magnus Swines DimDums DimDems Chameleonic Detritus.

    We should rejoice that the parasites are gone. Rid our party of the rest and let THEM try to form their own. They will get the resonating success of Lacuna Bilgemerger, Jo Ummuna & Chuckka Swinson, Losers galore. At least the coiled hodge, Khan, Twatson, McNic, streetsmith etc realised their their appeal was even less than than their collective talents… a BIG FAT ⭕️

    1. Len McCluskey may well be (or not) all the things you claim but his policies are at odds with the majority of the membership.

    2. Signpost, McClusky opposed open selection and supported adoption of the harmful IHRA definition. He also said that Corbyn had failed to apologise for Labour anti-Semitism when pressed.

      1. Jack T, YKES !!! thanks 4 pointing that out. Good grief !!! When was that??? When I was away perhaps. Would not have missed. I’m stunned. And saddened by that. Give me strength. Good thing I just came to bed b4 reading your reply. Well scratch him out.. Seems even he has failed to see that appeasement is the road to destruction when it comes to issues of central principles… basic morality … justice & EQUALITY under the law. Respect and care for ALL EQUALLY not just some. And of course no unrepresentative UNELECTED group should dictate “pledges” for anyone to sign. The United Kingdom is not some autocratic backwater.

      2. Ps could u post a link of McClusk’s saying what u say. I have heard Jeremy apologise a gazillions of times “for any hurt caused” etc till it made me sick. So if McC said that it would be an extraordinary lie. In fact the constant apologising with not once asking for SOUND evidence became beyond ridiculous. And of course the IHRA definition is NOT internationally accepted as pushed about. Again, that is another CRUCIAL lie that was left to take root.

      3. and then he compounded it all, Soon after his election he made it much more difficult for anyone to challenge him in the future by considerably increasing the trigger level.

        I guess he must have felt vulnerable after only managing to convince <6% of the membership (59,067votes) to support him and achieving a majority of only 5.523 from way over a million members.

  9. Is the judge presiding over the Assange case biased.

    the defense informed the judge they would like Assange to be able to sit with them in the well instead of the glass box. She opposed the request, contending it was unreasonable to think she could approve that without a “risk assessment” from personnel involved in security.

    When the defense made it clear they would make a formal request, she seemed to think they would have to ask for bail, which the prosecution would oppose. That prompted Lewis, the prosecutor, to inform the judge they took a “neutral stance.” He did not think a bail application was appropriate nor did he think it was as complicated as the judge was making it. Assange could have a security guard stand by him while he sat with his attorneys.
    https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/02/27/prosecution-assange-extradition-hearing-us-uk-treaty-does-not-apply-wikileaks

  10. …and for all the remainiacs, in addition to similar in Hungary and elsewhere throughout the EU, this is the sort of countries you fetishise and believe we should prioritise for free movement rather that the whole world.

    “A sheet of sketches by the young Adolf Hitler for an opera titled Wieland der Schmied has gone on exhibition in Lower Austria this weekend.”

    Explain that. The REMAINIAC COUP PLOTTERS, spent vast millions and energy to keep us yoked to the EU where at the heart, Antisemitism festers. They whine that this country will collapse if we don’t keep free movement to Austria and Hungary, but not Africa countries, India, Jamaica, Brazil, Columbia, Trinidad and Tobago, Haiti …

    Which outlook is Internationalist? Which is not? The remainiacs are NOT internationalist. And they, led by Iraq Blair, Starmer, Ummuna, Soubrey, Berger, Swinson, Streeting, Khan, Coyle and the other cranks are happy to embrace Antisemitism in Austria. They are wicked multi faced liars.

  11. Thanks Jack T. Very kind of you to post them. Good thing I got a good ish sleep last night. Mystified by how I missed that. Proof two heads better than one.
    Just shows how desperately urgent Open Selection is. It would compel the high command to come out of their bubble. They are detached and do not realise it. They inhabit a tiny circle of MSM, PLP and Notting Hill, Islington, French Villas and the ocean going palaces of Russian oligarchs. They are focused on each other rather than us.
    That must change. It will change. We WILL change it.

    Many minds and hands make light work🌹🌹🌹

    1. Signpost. Just noticed your condemnation of ‘remainiacs’. I too was and still am a remainer but in a completely different camp to the right wingers and Lexiters who used their views to undermine Jeremy Corbyn.

      I originally opposed our entry into what was then the Common Market but over the years, as did many doubters, I came to see that the EU was a force for good and was consituted to be exteremely democratic. I hope by this point you are not going into ‘explode mode’ :-).

      Of course it is easy to point to individuals or even countries in the EU and pick fault with them just as it is in any large organisation but I’m going to say something now which will probably shock you. The EU is actually SOCIALIST even though that may not have been its original intention. Why do you think it was the far right in the UK who opposed it? It’s because THEY know it is Socialist but they could not say it because it would damage the cause of the Lexiters who they wanted on their side.

      Think about it. The EU is a group of countries where each one contributes according to their ability to pay. The net result is that standards in the the less well off countries increase, ultimately to the benefit of all. It’s a bit like our ‘socialist’ NHS where those who require treatment get it but we all contribute.

      This is why the right i.e. the Tories object to anything which smacks of Socialism, including the EU. Leaving it was one of the greatest mistakes we have made.

      1. Comrade,
        look how wrong you can be……let’s name the Socialist states, there’s Macron in France; Merkle in G………no, that’s not right! Getting into bed with the European Commission; the Central Bank; the IMF, the troika gangsters are all fraudsters. Real Socialists, ask Dennis Skinner.

      2. The Peoples’ Socialist Republic of European Union, can you imagine? Let me count the Socialist leaders; in France we have Macron; in Alemania we have Merkel; in Hungary……. oh no that can’t be right?

      3. Steve, I’m afraid you weren’t paying attention, take your ‘leave’ blinkers of for a second. I was talking about how the EU as a whole operates, not the actions of individual people or countries within the EU!

      4. Jack T. I won’t explode. Need to eat. will reply later. In mean time it is a case of prioritising, sequencing etc. It was the wrong matter to focus on. And worse yet to grant Johnson an election on it. Ie collapsing under circumstances orchestrated by others. We need more strategic thought. It was 40 years ish from joining to the Ref. May be another 40 years before the next. It was not an issue to fight a General Election on. Same re niche issues. To some extent it connects with what JP states. We must focus on the immediate and universal … the immediately universal, the timely concerns of people. Maslow’s Hierarchy of needs and all that. JP is correct. The propulsion of the remainiacs … well meaning and as intelligent as anything… BUT detached from the grassroots the fundamental concerns in people’s lives.

        Good eg now would be saying to the people wading chest deep in water now and for EACH OF THE LAST SEVEN YEARS… it is like saying to them now, we must prioritised remaining in the EU, to prevent falling over a “Cliff Edge”. Or saying to medics now, struggling with the lack of resilience in the NHS to cope with Coronavirus, due to a deliberate wrecking of the NHS, ALL THROUGHOUT EU membership, you want to talk about the need to remain.

      5. Steve Richards and others citing the lack of socialist governments in the EU as proof of the impossibility of achieving socialism in the EU – we don’t have a socialist government in the UK either but we’d consider it specious if anyone tried to use that fact to dismiss out of hand the possibility of ever achieving one.
        It’s just as specious to deny that global or local triggers that might shift British minds towards socialism might also shift EU workers’ minds the same way – unless one believes they’re a different species across the Channel.
        The Gilets Jaunes suggest to me we might be the ones holding back European socialism.
        Are British students travelling to Paris today in the same spirit of solidarity as there was in 1968?
        I don’t think so – I think we’re letting the side down.

  12. jpenny “ innumerable studies show ….” Having worked in education for a long time, what those studies fail to show is the background of the families and areas they come from. For example, many of the students who go to university or college or obtained good jobs don’t all come from “ middle class backgrounds, many come from working class families plus backgrounds. Or you to trying to argue the huge surge in university students purely came from middle class backgrounds.

    Moreover, many in the public sector don’t have degrees, for example teaching assistants, learning mentors etc. Many of the people who joined the party were former members who resigned because of New Labours policies of alienating the working class. The bulk of the trade union membership consists of ordinary working class members, many of whom are Labour affiliated members so the Labour Party doesn’t just consist of direct members, for example, the rail unions. Whose total amounts to hundreds of thousands. Therefore, your “ well established fact” doesn’t cover the whole picture.

    “ This membership, lacking any even basic socialist analysis of society,…”. Really, well, the manifesto was well received by many in the membership and affiliated membership, which, just to remind you contained policies, for example, requiring the utilities plus rail to be taken back into public ownership.

    Not forgetting of course, the NHS to be funded solely by the public purse and the cessation of privatisation by stealth. Moreover, there was a policy to create an industrial bank dedicated to investing solely in industry. In order to do this would indeed require state intervention, which is why precisely the membership plus affiliated membership received it so warmly. With, for example 200,000 highly skilled, well paid manufacturing jobs in the West Midlands alone directly related to inward investment from Europe plus of course the multiplying economic effect it has on the economy in the West Midlands, it hardly surprising that many members plus affiliates supported remaining in the EU unless you believe the pie in the sky from Lord Snooty concerning the sunny uplands and jam tomorrow.

    In addition, your claim that EU rules would prevent for example a state owned railway is to put it mildly hogwash. “ Article 93 of the EU’s treaty specifically exempts “ the coordination of transport “ from state aid regulations : Friday 21 June 2019 independent.co.uk. . The notion that the working class would charge the barricades to overthrow the capitalist state doesn’t quite resonate with ordinary members.

    Furthermore, the problem lies not with the membership but with the PLP as you well know. The overwhelming majority of the members including affiliated members accepted the democratic decision to leave, I voted to stay for some of the reasons I stated previously, it was the refusal by Starmer, Thornberry et al who thrust this disastrous policy on the party. “ Your contention that Richard would be just as ineffectual as Prescott was in standing up to a Starmer led party. You obviously have not been paying attention to what he has stated both in print, on TV and in front of meetings. Moreover, your belief that the PLP will be continued to dominated by the “ centrists, moderates “ and Blairites does not stand up to historical analysis. After all, prior to NL many of the PLP were socialists eg Galloway, Heffer, Tony Banks etc.

    To believe that the only way is to bury your head in your hands saying woe is me what can we do, has never achieved anything even Lenin said “ what is to be done” not I will go off to be a defeatist!

    1. You are a complete ignoramus, Brianbotou. Learn something about the detail of the EU rules before spouting nonsense. Read the EU’s 2013 4th Rail Directive, which imposes regular system-wide competitive tendering of all rail services across Europe, and definitely DOES ban the creation of a nationwide integrated rail network system under public sector ownership and control , free of regular competitive tendering !

      Likewise, your entirely anecdotal nonsense denying the overwhelming middle class nature of our membership is simply refuted by studies such as the one I previously gave a link to . Here it is again. https://labourlist.org/2017/10/tim-bale-inside-labours-massive-membership-base/

      The ‘problem’ does NOT only lie with the overwhelmingly Right Wing , corrupt, PLP, or even the overwhelmingly, often equally corrupt , local government Labour councillors too. The entirely non socialist, Left Liberal, crap politics of our overwhelmingly middle class membership, is the final ‘problem’ that puts the final nail in the coffin of Labour as a Party with the potential top take on capitalism , even in a mild social democratic way.

      I have never in my critique of Labour in recent years, criticised our Party for failing to ‘take to the barricades to overthrow capitalism’ – but I think any socialist , even a mildly social democratic one , has the right to criticise a Party for failing even to try to restrain the worst features of a rampant globalist capitalism , as our Party has failed to do throughout the Blair/Brown era – even to build a few hundred thousand council houses, or repeal repressive anti-trades union laws, or close the tax loopholes which assist the superrich and corporations to rob our society blind. That craven capitulation to the worst features of globalised capitalism will continue under a Starmer Leadership – and even the ‘Corbynista’ radical promises were in fact impossible under the EU Single Market rules – despite your utterly ignorant denial of that fact.

      1. John – Well at least you’ve acknowledged that your views are only representative of a small minority of the Labour Party’s membership.

      2. It appears you are unable to understand what it states in article 93 of the EU directive regarding rail nationalisation does not prevent a nationalised railway and although a directive was passed in 2016 called the Fouth Rail package, opening up routes to private tenders, it does not come into force until 2023.

        Now, let’s look at the study you quoted. Notice, it doesn’t cover either affiliated members or the backgrounds of the people covered in the survey. For example, here are a but a small section of the trade unions affiliated to Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen ( ASLEF), Fire Brigade Union ( FBU), Communications Workers Union – post and telecommunications. As far as I know, the entry requirements to be, for example, a train driver, fireman or a post man does not require a degree as a rule.

        Moreover, as previously stated hundreds of thousands are Labour affiliated members, in fact it is in the region of over 300,000.

        It seems you fail to recognise, as Tony Benn said in 2010 that Blair, Brown and a small clique, created a new party, hence the New part, which had very little to do with Labour or traditional Labour values. It seems you are falling into the trap that the working class are ready to embrace the brave new world of revolutionary socialism. They aren’t, their concerns are more mundane like protecting their lively hoods which is why I pointed out that 200,000 highly paid, highly skilled jobs in a wide plethora of engineering companies in the West . Not forgetting of course, the economic multiplier affect on local economies. If you visit some of the former engineering, mining and steel communities, which I have you can witness first hand how decimated these communities became after 18 of Thatcherite policies followed by another 13 years of NL betrayal.

        Furthermore, it seems to have alluded you but I will repeat it, just in case it didn’t sink in. Although I voted to remain, along with 48% of those who participated in the referendum, I believe in democracy, therefore, abided by the majority decision even if JCs new best friends didn’t. The Labour party is not one person, it is comprised from many parts. It isn’t written in tablets of stone that, if Starmer becomes leader, the vast majority of the party can’t work to thwart a return to a new New Labour Party.

        After all, if all the people who fought so long and so hard to achieve rights for ordinary people, middle class, working class, the unemployed, the old and the sick, had just accepted their job lot, we would still have work houses, children working up chimneys and all of the evils of not being able to afford medical treatment.
        Let’s see how successful the Brexit policy will be although I fear when people start losing jobs and incomes start to drop even further the sunny uplands of the brave new world of Brexit won’t we looking so sunny 😎.

      1. And the situation along with every prevailing social scandal as the one here is happening and has been happening all the while we have been entangled in the Europeans Superstate Project:

        https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/02/two-children-found-sleeping-bin-emptied-crusher-12332950/

        Is it not wise to attend to such Tory scandal like this BEFORE getting rabid about remaining???

        The remainiacs need to consider, what do you think the children and other people sleeping in bins would say if you told them it is vital re remain in the EU???

        Here in central London two weeks ago, in between my home and that Johnson’s lust nest further out in Camberwell, a young man was found dead in another bin. Further more if people believed the project fear why has the number of Europeans applying for UK residence surged to three million in the last year I think. Why is it not the other way around? To date I have not heard a single sound argument to remain. I was quite indifferent, but having seen the thin and empty attempts for those STILL fighting to overturn a democratic vote, leave is now the obvious wise decision. Clearly being entangled in the EU over 40 years, has led to intelligent and well meaning people taking leave of their senses, sense of priorities, understanding and appreciation of an international … global outlook rather than the parochial … xenophobic Eursoobsessed, short and narrow minded bonkers attitude of we will fall apart outside of the EU grand project. So JP I am fully in agreement with you on this point. And after 4 years of neither evidence nor reasoning from Remainiacs, it is unlikely that the remainiacs will find anything to counter history and facts now.

        Surely, it is elementary logic and RESPECT, to fix what led to the result of the referendum, rather than insult those of the electorate for voting leave. They voted Leave because the status quo does not serve them. Until we in the metropolitan areas especially, have the humility to face that, those who voted leave, will do so again.

    1. Don’t know. Hope it is a clear assertive, decisive and sustained: 1️⃣ The treatmeant of the Palestinians is an abomination. Only abominable people would disagree. We would not tolerate it here. 2️⃣ The IHRA definition is NOT universally accepted. It is a lie that it is. That lie should have been rigorously uprooted from the get go. 3️⃣ Leaders should not and sign away away autonomy to make decisions. That is not leadership. Further it is grossly irregular and inappropriate so to do. To sign pledges as a condition to stand to lead the Labour Party or ANY party in this country should be against the law. It is common sense that the demands to sign pledges typed up by unelected unrepresentative groups makes the matter of extreme concern. It is intimidation, akin to a protection racket.

      The pledges should be dissected in parliament square and shredded. The United Kingdom is not some tawdry backwater. Labour must set the example of leading with the fundamental ethos : WE ARE ALL EQUAL UNDER THE LAW. The Labour Party must insist on that.

      Interestingly STEVE Richards, you ask about Burton’s POV on Palestinians: Are there any groups in Palestine or anywhere else who insist on prospective leaders signing away their DUTY to lead and make their judgements unencumbered by bullying and intimidation?

      Maybe Ms Patel knows. Maybe she asked BENJAMIN during one of her at least A DOZEN “work” meetings with him and unverified unknown “officials” during her “holiday”.

      Ask P Patel. She knows everything.

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